# Welcome!

## 423 thoughts on “Welcome!”

1. Abyssians,

Special thanks to our recent contributors (I haven’t done one of these since November so it is quite a list, 68 in all!):

228850/2 from Argentina
3h
515
Anchorperson Smith
Aria
Bailey
Beatty
Bertrand
boardwalk
Carl Koffman
Cera Ward
Chuck
Clayt
CommanderG
David Frankel
Eric
Factitious
Farseeker
Grandpa Carnegie
H. Goyteki
Hello Gregor
High Fidelity
Hollinback
James
Janice
Jmax
Joey Scarpa
Jordan
Kim
Kon-Tiki
LBJMFA
LoMoody
Mantis
Mary Moore
Masterpierround
McKay
Melynda
MIT10
Njorl
Nick H. / Totally Not Nick H.
Nova
Novice
One For Me
Owen Hammer
Phillip
Ranger314_16
Rebecca
Saints This Way
Secret Squirrel
Sheldon
shelley
shrwutfr
Silent Speaker
sp
Tami
Test
Tetra
The Humble Cleric
Thomas Villalobos
TriSkeet
Two Face
UPandON
Vasilii
Vewatkin
Vinny
WAITandSEE
Working
YoJo

Thank you everyone!

On a pointless side note: Since November we have had contributors from every letter of the alphabet except “I,” “Q” and “Z.” In fact we have never had a contributor whose name started with either “Q” or “Z.” Thinking of joining the conversation? I suggest the monikers “Quintessence” and “Zoolander.”

Two months to go!

White Raven

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2. HINT FOR JULY:

Room 30 – the math puzzle (I received a few emails from people suggesting hint topics – thanks to Cal for suggesting this one)

> Beelzebibble has credit for finding “times” and F = 6. (The indication that we should be doing alphanumeric substitution with the F is that letters are replacing the numbers on the watch face. The indication that the watch indicates “times” is emphasized by the size of the watch and that the word “times” occurs in the text.)

> Dave Gentile has credit for noticing that the watch crown points directly at door 42.

On a related note:

> Vewatkin found that there are 7 Fs in the text and put together the great solution 6 (F) * 7 (Fs in the text) = 42. In the solution here the number of Fs in the text does not play a part. Only the illustration is necessary to solve it.

The Hint:

We all know that the solution to this puzzle (and life the universe and everything) is 42. This puzzle has two operators and three numbers and the order matters. As is almost always the case, Manson has grouped the elements, in this case physically and conceptually. There are several striking things about the objects in the middle of the room, each striking bit (numbers instead of letters, size of the watch, etc) help with solving the riddle.

I will offer another hint if no one is gets the solution in a few days, and I will give the solution on the 13th if no one gets it by then.

White Raven

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• Notable items:

1. Watch is big. From which we get “Times.”
2. Letters instead of numbers. From which we get “6″
3. Watch is missing a hand. ?
4. Watch is leaning against tree. ?
5. Watch is pointing at 42. The puzzle solution.
6. The tree has apples. Ten of them I believe. ?

Missing anything notable?

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• The missing hand could be part of it. Or maybe the if no eve sign you know because it has a arrow which is like a watch hand. OK maybe not about the if no eve sign but the watch hand is definitely connected to the watch because it fell off the watch.

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• Thank you.

7. The missing watch hand is nearby pointing at door 5.

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• Actually the hand points to 15.

Any solution which has 6 times either 10 or 15 requires that the other symbol is either a minus or division.

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• The operator we know is multiplication so order matters no difference what the second one is, but yeah – or / or square root or something looks like it is needed unless it is a number which is just like 42 like 420.

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• I won’t have time to really dig in to this today, but maybe someone can run with this assortment of rambled junk:

No Eve, as pointed out by others previously, implies “Add ‘em”

6 x 6 + 6 = 42

666 is the number of the beast, referenced by the apple the serpent gave to Eve (possibly?… my Bible knowledge is not really credible).

The shape of the tree and clock face could (arguably?) be considered a 6.

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• The 3 numbers can’t be 6 10 15. No combo works. Here are all the posibilities arranged by total.

6x10x15=900
15x10x6=900
6x15x10=900
10x15x6=900
10+6×15=240
6+15×10=210
15+6×10=210
10×15+6=156
15×10+6=156
10+15×6=150
15+10×6=150
10×15-6=144
15×10-6=144
6×15+10=100
15×6+10=100
15-6×10=90
15×6-10=80
6×15-10=80
6×10+15=75
10×6+15=75
10-6×15=60
6×10-15=45
10×6-15=45
6+10×15=31
15-10×6=30
10/6×15=25
10×15/6=25
15/6×10=25
15×10/6=25
10×15=150 square root=12.24…
6×15=90 square root=9.48…
6×15/10=9
15×6/10=9
6/10×15=9
15/10×6=9
6×10=60 square root=7.74…
6/15×10=4
6×10/15=4
10×6/15=4
10/15×6=4
10-15×6=-30
6-10×15=-60
6-15×10=-90

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• Square root is appealing because of the “square root” of the tree but wouldn’t it have to be the square root of 49 so we could also use “times six?” I don’t see where we could get 49.

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• Vince posted on my behalf down below. I do like the 70 divided by 10 idea. There’s a good 7 in the tree support and edge of watch. The zero could come from the watch face or the zero in the dropped hand. Either way, 70 is “divided” by 10 (apples). And then times six.

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• I really hope it is not 70 / 10 x 6 even though the math works since the 7 and 0 are not really clear and the watch wouldn’t really mean times anymore.

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• Maybe we are supposed to pick the low-hanging fruit…

10 take away 3 leaves (ha!) 7

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• Could there be more alphanumeric stuff going on. Like, J – C or something like that…?

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• “Forbidden Fruit” gives you two more F = 6s that could be used in 515′s equation…

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• HINT PART II:

This puzzle is a lot easier to solve if you leave the math behind and focus on the understanding the riddle.

Carl’s seven observations (with help from MIT10) is almost correct.

What is by far the most distinctive thing about the tree?

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• It’s a fake tree, it’s flat.. How many apples does it have? NONE. They are painted on fake apples.

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• A suggestion from Vince, probably sarcastic, but whatever:

The minute hand on the ground means “minus 3″ because it has been taken away from the clock (minus) and is pointing at the door to 15, and the “15 minutes” position on the clock is occupied by C = 3.

[10 (apples) take away 3 (see above)] *6 = 42

(I want to add a bunch of stuff like the round end on the minute hand connects it to the apples and A = 1, connecting the apples to the alphanumeric code, but I’ll try to restrain myself.)

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• “probably sarcastic”

Let’s not have any doubt about that. That solution is PURE HIDDEN MYSTERY.

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• 1. Watch is big. “Times”
2. Letters instead of numbers. “6″
3. Watch is missing a hand. “see #7″
4. Watch is leaning against tree. “watch times tree”
5. Watch is pointing at 42. “puzzle solution”
6. The tree is fake. Not real apples. “Zero?”
7. Missing hand pointing at door 15. “15″

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• 15 = O, there’s an O attached to the minute hand on the floor.

No idea.

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• Not just fake. Two sided!
1st you put the hands together 15 plus 6 is 21.
2nd you times the put together watch 21 by the 2 sided tree that it leans on. 42!

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• That looks right. Here I think are all the steps.

1. The watch has letters instead of numbers and the arrow points to F which is 6.
2. The missing hand points to door 15.
3. Putting the hands together adds up to 21.
4. Watch is big. “Times”
5. The watch is leaning against the flat, two dimensional, two sided tree. Times 2.

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• Okay, that works great and yeah I actually like that but what about the apples and the adam and eve thing? Seriously, no reference to genesis here? Why have apples on the tree?

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• “Avoid the temptation to count apples as part of your solution.”

;)

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• Hey I like that apples are temptation. Also the apples are fake. Both are Manson screwing with us but with hints that he is screwing with us. I suppose I should say WR hasn’t said this is right yet.

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• Congratulations Mantis! Great job!

Also congratulations go to…

Beelzibibble for “times” and F=6

Dave Gentile for noting that the watch crown points to 42

Bertrand for noting that the tree is fake as are the apples.

Aria for making a spot on jest about “temptation”. In the Genesis story taking the apple is a sin. Also IF NO EVE then in the story the apple would not have been taken at all, which would have been a good thing.

Janice / MAZECAST visitors for IF NO EVE suggesting “Adam” which sounds identical to “Add’em” (I never would have found that one in a million years!)

Great job everyone!

White Raven

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• Forgive me if this has already been covered, but I always interpreted this as “F HOUR TREE” — an anagram for “THREE FOUR.”

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• Holy cow.

That…MUST be what was intended. It’s the wrong door, but that HAS to be what is going on there. Oh my God, man, this is incredible.

F HOUR TREE, points to 34. Every door is indicated except 42. I am blown away. THIS is what all of this Maze obsession is about. This makes it all worthwhile.

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• For more on Kubrick’s-The-Shining-related obsession, check out Room 237, a film about people who have devoted their lives to finding hidden messages in that movie. Seriously, people are so weird! Hahaha… ha…

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3. Abyssians,

Since so many people are subscribed to this page I thought I should mention it here… the results of the latest Ask Manson are available on the Ask Manson page.

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• I thought Ask Manson was cancelled or something, darn it…

(Not that I don’t like Ask Manson, I just would have put something there if I had known)

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4. HINT FOR JUNE:

Room 44

It is difficult to give a hint for this solution without giving it away so I going to be really vague, but if no one gets it in a few days I’ll give another hint.

This solution is a relatively common English idiom. The idiom is used (at the least) in the U.S., Canada, the U.K. and India. I hear it rarely but I read it maybe once a month in news or business publications. No doubt you have all heard it many times but may have never actually used it yourself.

Half of the idiom is related to the reptile itself, the other half of the idiom is about something closely related to the reptile. The solution has nothing to do with the species of the reptile – the idiom works just as well replacing the reptile with another creature with similar attributes. The important feature is highlighted by the way the reptile is drawn. Compare the striking difference between the way Manson drew the hare (just another “H”) and the tortoise (wisely won the race).

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• “Reptile” is a word and let’s see, closely related to the croc… the croc’s mother! Which makes the idiom “WORD TO YOUR MOTHER!”

The hint may be too vague for me…

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• Regardless of whether it’s an alligator, crocodile, or caiman (my preferred interpretation), it’s green. And it’s drawn wearing a collar, which isn’t essential to drawing this reptile and was therefore probably something Manson felt he needed to include to make this work.

So this reptile is a COLLARED GREEN. Collard greens taste good, therefore take that door.

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• Or collard greens are disgusting so take the other door. Which would be correct.

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• Awesome solution!

We should start a new vote:
Collard greens disgusting or delicious?

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• vewatkin,

Racial sensitivity? Are you referring to caiman or cabbages?

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• Okay so no caiman. Maybe it is a beast, a carnavore, a predator, or something like that.

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• Oops put my last comment in the wrong place. It was:
Circling like a vulture.

But also the croc looks EVIL. Round and round. Never ending evil or something?

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• Aria,

Wow! That was fast and with only a crappy vague hint!

So on the left we have a vicious circle and on the right we have loops going round and round but eventually leading to the handle of door 18… a glimmer of hope of escaping the loop.

Good job Aria!

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• Hollenback,

You are probably right, it is hard to understand the walrus sometimes!

Welcome to the Abyss!

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• Vicious circle. Whoa. That is what it is. I mean that IS what it is. The room looks totally different now. Weird.

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• Circle of violence. That could be another solution. But vicious circle makes more sense.

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• I like that vicious cycle/circle is often defined using the phrase CHAIN of events.

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• Aria,

Unless I have forgotten something, that’s all I got… which makes you Cluemaster General, right?

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Personally I think you deserve Cluemaster for that one. That was a really weak hint. I had two more hints ready to go.

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• Sara’s on vacation or something. She says, “70 in tree support and watched face. Divided by 10 (apples). Tree is literally dividing 70. Times 6 (F).”

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5. Abyssians have begun voting for the room location of the remaining hints. Not my idea and I cannot guarantee it will have much impact on my choices but I am open to suggestions.

Room 3 – THIS WAY – “sp” (surrealistly swapped by Facticious), “Everybody!” (bold voting fraud by Aria)
Room 5 – TREES – Janice, MIT10, “vewatkin” (clever voting fraud by Aria)
Room 7 – GALLERY –
Room 8 – TILTED – Facticious
Room 9 – ART –
Room 10 – PAINT – Jordan, Saints This Way
Room 11 – CAGE – Bertrand
Room 13 – TIME – Aria, Kon-Tiki, Kon-Tiki, Kon-Tiki, Kon-Tiki
Room 14 – BIG –
Room 16 – CHAMBER – Bertrand
Room 18 – FIRE – Janice, High Fidelity, MIT10
Room 19 – PORTICO – Aria, Saints This Way, “Michael Jackson” (as revealed to Saints This Way in a seance)
Room 20 – TURTLE –
Room 21 – YARD –
Room 25 – CROWN – Nick H.
Room 27 – STATUE – Facticious, Nick H., Hello Gregor, Hello Gregor, Hello Gregor, “Beelzebibble” (craftily placed by sp)
Room 30 – IF NO EVE – Jordan, MIT10, Saints This Way
Room 31 – DEAD TREE – WAITandSEE, MIT10
Room 32 – BROKEN WALL – Aria
Room 33 – PLANKS – High Fidelity, LoMoody, Saints This Way
Room 36 – RUIN – Janice
Room 37 – SHAPES – Facticious
Room 39 – CELLAR – Bertrand
Room 41 – SLIDE – Jordan
Room 42 – THE ANIMAL – High Fidelity
Room 44 – REPTILE – Bertrand, sp, sp, sp, sp, LoMoody, “Nick H.” (surrealistly swapped by Facticious), “Beelzibibble” (craftily placed by sp)

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• Cool! Bertrabd and Aria picked 3 so how about we keep it to 3.
5
18
36

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• I don’t see a reason to limit the votes, they are just suggestions after all. But three is fine with me.

I’ll update the list above as votes come in.

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• Oh we *are* voting? I just thought White Raven chose. Please put me down for 25.

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• And also, if you can pick 3 rooms, then please write me down for 25, 3, and 27.

I’m not sure if this matters, but they’re in the order I would rather do them in.

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• I don’t think you can vote 3 times. Otherwise I could just be like “I place my 99999999999 votes on Room 25″

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• I vote for all of them.

(JK, don’t actually add them all)

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• sp,

Did I label 35 wrong or did you write the wrong number? I lose track of things frequently, is there something I mentioned which I have not confirmed? Altogether possible!

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• i changed my mind, i’ll put all 4 votes into 44, along with bertrand’s one vote.

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• Pointless fun?.?.?. I’m in!
30 The watch and the tree!
31 and 5 What could be left?
If I get 4 then 18 too.

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• Can’t remember my login info sorry.
44 33 22 I like dem double digits!

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• LoMoody,

I added your other two votes but removed 22 from the list. I just copied and pasted the list of unfinished rooms without noticing that 22 was among them. If I had a clue what was going on in that room I would probably be so excited I would share it immediately to get feedback.

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• I think I only have two votes in so far, so I’ll cast my third for room 37. Also, I’d like to move one of sp’s votes from 44 to 20, if that’s allowed.

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• Facticious – Sure! Why not?!

> OPEN DOOR

> It is too dark to see.

> LIGHT LAMP

> You have nothing to light the lamp with.

> MOVE SP’S FOURTH VOTE

>Success!

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• Thanks for fixing my votes.

So far 37 and 44 are tied.

I’m guessing White Raven is the tiebreaker?

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• Nick H.,

This whole voting thing kind of just evolved. I am not bound to the votes in any manner but I am taking them seriously as a general indication of where people’s interest level is. Certainly I will not be doing hints for rooms with one or no votes.

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• I’d like to swap Nick’s room 3 vote with one of sp’s room 44 votes. This won’t change the vote totals, so nobody should mind.

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• Now hang on, if you’re taking the votes seriously enough that you’re discounting the possibility of hinting rooms with one or no votes, then surely moving other people’s votes should not be allowed?

However, if it IS allowed, I would like to move everyone’s votes to room 3.

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• Except for vewatkin’s votes. He told me he wanted all his allowed votes on his favouritest room, Room 5.

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• Beelz just messaged me on Facebook, he wants to split his votes on 44 and 27

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• Well, I still have a room 3 vote, so whatever.

Also, room 44 is in first place.

Which is sad, because room 27 can be solved with *one word* from the story.

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• Along with my 19 vote
33
30
10
I was at a seance yesterday and the ghost of Micheal Jackson votes for 19.

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• Nick H, what do you mean about Room 27?

Saints this Way, that’s only because Room 35 is already 5-starred. ;) Surprised he didn’t pick 33, however.

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• Does the H stand for “Hidden Mystery” or “tHail Krider”?

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• MJ wanted to vote for 33 but I talked him out of it. 19! 19! 19!

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• vewatkin,

Unless the H stands for “I moved from Florida to Oregon” any similarities are purely coincidental.

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• Aria,

Perhaps I should ask for ID and send you a voter registration card in the mail. :)

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• Although room 44 is in first place, I’m going to post solution to room 27. The last sentence says “I herded the group thru the DOOR to…” — see?

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• Abyssians,

I learned two very important things from the voting process:

1. I was planning on offering hints for rooms you are all less interested in. So thank you Nick for accidentally starting this voting thing.

2. You are all wonderfully nuts.

Here comes the hint…

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6. HINT FOR MAY:

Room 34

In this room is a “yes,” a “maybe,” and a “no.”

In this room is there is a yes, a maybe, and a no.

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• AHA! I’m so happy we’re finally going to learn what the deal is with this one.

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• Okay doke!

yes is “They finally got the message”

maybe is “they almost missed what the room was telling them”

no is, well, I don’t know, the solution to the riddle I suppose.

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• Is Bowler Hat shrugging? Does that count as a “maybe?” Does walking out the door count as a “no?” Does holding a hand up count as “yes?”

MIT10 and all the other hintsters where are you….?

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• Yes, there is a riddle there.
Maybe, someone can get it.
No, it probably won’t be me.
I like riddles but I am no good at them.
It is fun to try anyway.

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• I’m here, just thinking. There is a tense thing going on, where they had been could be no and where they were going could be maybe and where they are could be yes. This isn’t a solution. Could be something in this?

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• If yes is where they are and they all sit down, it could be about the chairs having 10 legs.

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• Nothing yet? Okay…

HINTS PART TWO:

1. It is possible the reason this one hasn’t been solved is that people think it has been mentioned before, it is pretty simple. I skimmed all 319 comments, it has not been mentioned before.

2. This riddle is a two-parter, I’m giving hints for the first (central) part. The second (supporting) part has already been found but I have not yet given credit.

3. Yes as in yep.

And maybe as in, um, maybe.

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• 10 (door number)
4 fingers
10-4 = yes

No door number = no

M shape + shrug = maybe

Maybe?

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• 10-4 as yes works with the text, actually… “Got the message”

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• In Turing and similar programming, computer-related, numbers are assigned certain designations; when one is dealing with random possibilities, 2 could be assigned a random occurance of 1 or 0.

no = 0
yes = 1
maybe = 2

Although these are designations, no particular number is more important than another, they are just assigned to a meaning, however, if you were to compare them in terms of size, 2 is the largest whole number.

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• It’s really hard not to see that 10 as pointing to YES and the ripped 25 sign pointing to MAYBE. (And NO sign over or pointing to NO.)

I do kind of like the 10-4 thing because the actual meaning of 10-4 is “message received,” see “finally got the message” in text, although 10-4 has come to mean agreement in everyday speech.

When you draw (drawing room) the lines from 25 to MAYBE and from 10 to YES to 4 you get an X (= 10).

Makes sense to have lots of pointing clues in a room with “compass needle” prominently featured.

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• I think I got it.
Yes is 10 on account of the fact that the sign that says 10 is fully up. Maybe is 25 because of the fact that the sign that says 25 is only hanging by one nail. Maybe it is up and maybe not depending upon whether or not it falls. The door which has no handle is no because there is no sign over the door at all.
It then stands to reason that yes is 10 so we should go through this door.
This could be what Aria meant by “pointing to” but the 25 sign does appear to a degree to be physically pointing at the maybe sign so I am not sure.
I looked at the comments and do not know what else could be supporting this.

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• Congratulations H Goyteki for solving the riddle!

Congratulations also to Aria for her solution from August of last year! I am on the fence about pointing solution (also from August) but I am adding it as a possibility.

Here are the solutions back to back:

The “YES” “MAYBE” and “NO” signs refer to the spaces over the doors. There is no sign over the unmarked door = No. The 25 sign is hanging by one nail, half up and half down = Maybe. The 10 sign is fully up = Yes.

This solution is reinforced by the open arrangement of the doors. The blank space over the unmarked door is the same orientation as the “NO” sign (facing to the left). The “MAYBE” sign is the same orientation (pointed straight at the viewer) as the 25 sign. The “YES” sign is the same orientation as the 10 sign (facing to the right).

Great job H Goyteki and Aria! The room is now 5/5!

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• I am recanting my position on Aria’s pointing solution. When I made the image for Related Images (to show why I was on the fence about it) I saw just how much all four corners DO point to one another. I was measuring from corner to corner, I should have just thought of them as simple arrows. The pic is up.

I am no longer on the fence. My bad! Good job Aria!

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• I like this group of solutions quite a bit! Somebody switched the signs, but many other things in the room conspire to let you know about it.

An idea that I really like but am not getting any love for in the Hangout is that the mislabelling of the doors is a nod to what happened with Theseus’s ship, when he forgot to put up the white sails to tell his dad he was okay, with disastrous results — another example of mislabelling.

I have a question — is Bowler Hat not part of any of this? Something you said waaaay down in the comments for Room 34 seemed to indicate he was, or at least his arm was, but he doesn’t appear anywhere.

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• Aria,

Thank you! I totally forgot about the bowler hat guy tie-in. I added it to the solution, but it is pretty anti-climatic.

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• When I first did this one I got it wrong. I thought that because you couldn’t go thru the one that said “no”, that meant you could trust the signs. I went thru “yes”

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7. Abyssians,

I had to take an unexpected leave of absence this last week and a half or so. My apologies for not informing you all first, it was sudden. I will catch up on comments in next couple of days.

Thanks!

White Raven

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8. HINT FOR APRIL:

Room 21 “The Yard” contains three objects, a picture with snakes, a wrench, and a bird. Nothing besides these three objects is necessary to solve the riddle. The riddle is simple and straight forward but in my opinion the application of the solution is a little bit messy. The three objects illustrate an action – one can do it, one is doing it, and one has done it.

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• I think it’s clear that it isn’t a tern. If you look at tern pictures, you’ll see that this bird isn’t drawn to look like them.

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• Oh I get it! We are ruling out birds one at a time! Let me try! “So how come the bird isn’t a ostrich?”

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• I like the way you’re thinking! If I could turn back time, I’d have asked about ostriches to begin with.

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• Ha! =D

I think what the bird is or not is not the point. I looked up all kinds of birds than thought WR said it was what the bird was doing. Which appears to be nothing. Humph!

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• How about flying? The snakes kinda look like they ARE flying. The bird CAN fly. The wrench…um…can be used to fix something that can fly. Ok two out of three.

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• The action WR is talking about seems to be “turn” (per Factitious’s meta-hint) or “twist” or “spin.” The wrench is designed to facilitate the turning of things, the bird is turning its head, and the snakes are turned around and around each other.

The difficulty, I guess, is figuring out how this clues 44. I guess you could say you should go for the most complete version of the action being clued. Also, the 44 could be seen to tie together the three objects — the 44 could be bird claws, the two ends of the wrench, or two open snake mouths (alternatively the two “open” ends of the entwined snakes, if you look at them as a single object).

I have an added thought about all this for which I’m getting (predictably) mocked, but I’ll just throw it out anyway. I’m thinking that the action is “SPIN” because of a few fun wordplay connections to be made with that word:
- a wrench is a spanner; “span” is archaic past tense of “spin”
- the railing above the doors is supported by “SPINdles”
- the conical trees recall the shape of spun yarn on a spindle
- the snakes look like two strands that have been spun together to make yarn

You see where I’m going with this; it’s all a play on the label “YARN” for this room. YES I know we already have yarn in room 41 but it makes sense for 21 and 41 to be connected since they are the beginning and end of the Loop. I have an extended theory about yarn and the Loop which I’ll put somewhere more appropriate so you can all more easily ignore it. :)

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• I should also add that sp pointed out that there is such a thing as a snake wrench, in addition to the crowfoot wrench I pointed out a while ago. So that’s another thing tying the three things together. Probably all that indicates is that there are a lot of different types of wrenches, but it’s kind of fun.

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• As WR mentioned, the key components of this riddle are ‘doing’, one can combine the wrench, picture, and bird into a cohesive sentence that is without a shadow a doubt the correct answer: the wrench’s action is to turn, but more specifically it is to screw either on or off, a bolt. The picture of the snakes is simply a picture, and so the snakes are not real, or lacking in matter, producing ‘no matter’. The bird, while clearly not a tern, but could be related to the tern family, is turning away from the Guide or visitors in disgust with their decision to come here. Therefore the irrefutable sentence generated from this clear line of thought is ‘you are screwed no matter which way you turn/tern’.

Shout outs to DG on this one.

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• WR said that “the application of the solution is a little bit messy.” Translating this into English I think this means the solution is not 44 but instead is a phrase like “fly away from here” or some such thing.

Applying the solution “44″ is not “messy” you just take door 44. But applying “fly away from here” makes sense cuz of what room it is but is not so simple cuz no door choice is given but it makes sense anyway…this would be “a little bit messy.”

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• Or it just means “turn back,” which is messy if you came from 1 because to “turn back” to 1 you have to go all the way through the Loop.

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• And if you came from 31 you don’t turn back at all — you go to 44. Messy to the point of being nonsensical…

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• Hi everyone!

MIT10 is making a good point but maybe 44 is being pointed out in a more round about manner. The solution could be about turning left to take 44. The wrench has been “left” behind. But on the other hand the bird is looking over its right shoulder. I don’t know, just an idea.

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• No that totally works!

“TURN BACK!”

It is like a warning that you shouldn’t be here and if you turn back you avoid the death room 24! It is the farthist room from being out of the circle so if you are wandering around the wrong way you come to this place and only way to go on is to take 24, aaaaaah DEATH! But if you come from 1 it is just a warning that you took a bad door like the crown over the door in the room with the film strip of faces over the doors. The crown is the right door but you cant go back, so don’t make that choice next time.

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• Aria I was writing my post so I didn’t see your last one. Yeah “turn around” must be it. The snakes are turning around, the wrench can turn around, and the bird has turned around to face us. Awesome!

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• I love SP’s solution! “You are screwed no matter which way you turn” (copyright sp 2016) is WAY more interesting than “turn around.” Nonetheless “turn around” is the solution I have, sigh.

This simple solution is messy in that (as Aria and MIT10 pointed out) one cannot “turn around” and return to room 1 but it does work as a “you have taken a wrong turn” warning.

The solution works as a deterrent to entering The Trap. Every room that enters to The Trap which is in The Loop [21, 19, 14, 41] has a deterrent/warning of this kind to avoid The Trap.

Congratulations Aria! As you said, it is all over but the shouting. :)

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• Looks like some bonus hints in that response! Can credit be included for Factitious? We came up with essentially the same idea at the same time.

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• I am afraid approved the comment by first time poster Farseeker too late for him/her to be part of the conversation. Welcome Farseeker! You may now post freely.

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• Absolutely! When I read Factitious’ tern comment I suspected that he was either on the right track or would be soon.

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• No worries white raven I wasn’t right anyway. It is kind of weird now I see it so completely it seems like how did I not see that before? Turn around. Of course. Turn around. I have looked at this room for years and did not see that. Glad to be here!

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• Greetings Farseeker! I totally know what you mean. It is weird cuz now it seems obvious.

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• Maybe I’m biased because this matches what I thought of when I read your hint, but I really like this one! I think you’re on to something major here.

I’ve been vocally skeptical in general of proposed solutions in non-path rooms that try to pick out a door to go through. Having a message here about having gone the wrong way and needing to turn back is a lot more plausible to me. Nobody tries to treat “NO ESCAPE” as a clue pointing to one of the doors in 38; we accept that it’s a message from Manson about the nature of the room and how it fits into the maze.

I’m not completely happy with this as a clue for “turn back”/”turn around,” because the preposition isn’t very apparent, but it’s possible that Manson thought this would be enough. Maybe just having the bird’s back was, to him, enough. Anyway, I think the turning connection between these three objects is clear in retrospect, and that’s pretty neat.

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• Was waiting for Vince to step in and spoil the kumbaya vibe, but i guess it’s my Tern to point out the loonyness of this Dodo clue (no disrespect WR):

So.. Why would Manson put a “turn around” clue on a page where you can’t turn around? Either you’re new to Maze in which case you don’t know How to turn around, making the clue useless, OR you’re not new to Maze and you don’t need the clue/warning, making the clue useless again.

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• I’m not too bothered by the fact that this turning clue (whether meant to say “turn around” or “turn back”) isn’t helpful. As Ben points out, “no escape” isn’t helpful either, but it’s a relevant comment on your situation. And while “turn back” is not immediately useful in telling you where to go, it’s at least accurate, and potentially helpful somewhere down the line if you realize it’s telling you to return to 1 and try another door (which there’s not actually any way you’d be able to intuit based on this, but that’s a minor point). I consider it a point in this interpretation’s favor that it doesn’t strain at the end the make a connection to the best door.

I think the interpretation has the additional strength of being a bit like another puzzle that we can confidently assume that Manson actually intended–the objects on the signs in 29 that are meant to suggest flipping the book upside-down. Here and there, we have a group of images meant to suggest an action; here and there, the images don’t seem to be natural choices to represent the action, but you can see where they’re coming from.

I do believe this is a reasonable hypothesis given what we’ve seen from Manson elsewhere. I don’t think it attains the certainty of the better solutions, but it at least makes sense.

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• Kon-Tiki,

No disrespect taken, discussing potential solutions is what we do best.

My two cents:

Keep in mind that Manson did not intend for the rooms to be mapped. Imagine that this room, instead of clues, has a sign which says “TURN AROUND!” If you enter through one of the one way doors then you read the sign and think “Crap! I can’t go back, I must have taken the wrong door!” If you enter from 31 or 44 going back is a good idea. Riddles in Rooms 31 and 44 will point you in the right direction and once you are in The Loop taking the shortest path doesn’t matter. Also if you look at a map of The Loop, this is the end of the line going in the wrong direction. The message “turn around” seems appropriate here.

This said, your criticism is understandable, the application is not as straight forward as “GO BACK” in Room 32. MAZE is an infuriating mix of more analytical and more subjective riddles, this one tends toward the subjective end.

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• Aw MAN! I was just sitting and thinking about this and thought, everything is turned around! Maybe next time.

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• I think Kon-Tiki’s criticism of the clue as unhelpful is correct, but that’s not exactly the issue here. We’re not concerned with whether the puzzle is good, only whether it’s intended.

I already made the Room 29 comparison, but to draw it out: The objects there do not actually do a good job of indicating that we should flip the page upside-down. They do to varying degrees, but by and large they aren’t things that you would generally think about flipping upside-down. Salt and pepper shakers aren’t typically employed by pointing them straight down, bottles can be emptied with essentially a ninety degree turn, keys might be rotated various degrees and pointing in any direction, the leaf is meant to evoke the phrase “turning over a new leaf” which isn’t actually about that kind of leaf…but nevertheless you can see the idea here once you know what you’re looking for. It’s not bad, but you could make a stink about it if you wanted to, and it’s at least unclear how convincing an interpretation it would be if we didn’t already know to turn the page upside-down.

This Room 21 “turn” stuff isn’t anywhere near as convincing an interpretation, because there are fewer symbols and the message is weird and it seems like a bird looking to the side isn’t a great example of something turning even looking at this page through that lens–but it’s at least on the same planet as things we’ve seen from Manson before.

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• I think I figured it out! In the paragraph that comes with the page, it says a lot of stuff about the plants or bushes on the page. In between the two trees, there are 2 bushes each containing 2 bushes in one. In total on each side, there is 4 so if u put thoughts numbers together it is 44. But one bush is cut in half so I thought it said 24 but relized there is 2. I don’t know but I don’t think the picture of the snake, the wrench and the bird has nothing really to do with it :).

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• [For those of you who got excited seeing his name - from his email address I gather that this is not the solving-the-main-solution-to-MAZE-fame Bailey.]

Bailey,

I am sorry for my tardiness in approving your comment, it has been a challenging time as of late. You are an approved member and may now post freely.

I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say here. Can you spell out how this is a solution?

White Raven

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9. The last riddle was pretty damn hard. Don’t get me wrong it was seriously awesome but it was crazy hard. Mad props to Aria for getting so close. Any chance the next one could be a little less god mode?

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• Here I go being the dissenter but I want another crazy hard one like the last two riddles. Mansontastic! Mansonificent! Masontacular! Mansonsuperificatacularificent! (declaring irreverently) Bring it WR! Let’s see what you got! (muttering under breath reverently, “White Raven, God Of Riddles. May he live forever”)

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• ^ sometimes the “like” button’s just not enough… That was some serious Maze pep going on!

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• MIT 10, Janice, Jordan, 515,

This time around I am bowing to the wishes of MIT10 and Jordan and shooting for easy. Sorry for the delay, I am having health issues. The hint will be online in a few minutes. Hopefully it will still be Mansonificent.

White Raven

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• Very sorry to hear about the health issues, WR. Hope things get better soon.

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• Aria,

Thank you for your concern. It is increasing looking as though a full recovery, if it is possible, is still a long way off yet.

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10. Abyssians,

Special thanks to our recent contributors:
Aria
515
sp
Factitious
MIT10
vewatkin
Janice
Njorl
Rebecca

And newcomers:
Saints This Way
Jordan
Test
Silent Speaker
Ian
Beatty
One For Me
Jmax
1985 Forever
Two Face

MAZE is now 81% solved (not including the Guide, according to stuff I know, void where prohibited, yada yada…) good job everyone! 6 months to go!

White Raven

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11. HINT FOR MARCH:

Room 8 has a sign which is very sensibly labeled “SiGN” except of course for the lower case ” i.”

Ignore that the sign is pointing to 31, Manson uses arrows and pointing inconsistently throughout MAZE, sometimes a pointer points to the right door, sometimes it means follow my solution, and sometimes it is a red herring – the context of each riddle determines the use – which is good – otherwise we would all just follow the pointers and MAZE would be easy.

In most of the rooms of the House visual grouping and/or symmetry is fundamental and here the SiGN is grouped with the bowling pin. This is the entire puzzle, nothing besides the sign and the bowling pin are required.

The puzzle has two steps the first is to associate two things that are alike, the second step is pretty obvious.

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• The i is the bowling pin. The top edge of the arrow that is visible corresponds to the left-hand edge of a 10-pin setup viewed head-on.

SiGN corresponds to pins 1, 2, 4, 7

Remove pin 2 because the i is lowercase, corresponding to the lost pin in room 8.

Add 1, 4, and 7 to get 12.

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• Actually, I guess you wouldn’t remove the i = 2 pin — it would be the one standing as it is in the room… the only thing left standing. So I guess the SGN are the pins that have been knocked down and therefore counted, associated by their position in the sign and in the setup of 10-pin bowling pins with 1, 4, and 7. (You count the pins that have been knocked down.)

OK, I’ll quit this line now, this is going nowhere.

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• Factitious suggested replacing “i” with “PIN.”

If you do that you get SPIN(GN). If you spin the sign 180, it’s pointing to the left side of the room. The only door you can take on the left is 12.

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• On the RIGHT. On the RIGHT.

(Hmmmm… the modify button isn’t working for me anymore…)

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• Do the S and N in SiGN indicate a compass needle that you should SPIN so the S pole of the needle points to the geographic south of the room, indicated by S? Then you would take the only possible door on the south end of the room, door 12.

PS where are all you other hintsters?

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• I have got nothing. But I think you are totally on with the i and the pin. The pin looks like a i but in reverse, white instead of black. The pin is white and there is a black stripe which turns the pin into a white dot over a long white stripe. So the pin is another i or the the i is another pin but what do we do with the happy couple and the sgn?

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• Oh and about the missing hintsters…this hint isn’t exactly jumping out at me as really useful so far but I think the i and pin are a thing and that could lead somewhere… I am thinkng everyone is just scratching their heads.

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• You’re probably right about that… hm. Still, perhaps there’s somebody with a shining answer just waiting for their post to be approved…

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• Spin the room, and 12 will be in the bottom left, where the sign is now.

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• Maybe the 2 I s are part of a phrase like The EYES Have It or On PINS And Needles?

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• If you put the pin in where the i is you get SpinIGN change up the letters and get Spining but it is spelled wrong and I it is not so clear that this means to spin the room around 180. It is better with no ING.

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• The way the pin and arrow are arranged makes you think of clock hands. If the pin is the big hand and the “i” is also a pin, but a little pin (small i), this could be telling you to think of a big hand and a little hand on a clock, both pointing up.

12 noon or 12 midnight.

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• How long to we have to figure this out? Do you tell us the answer if we don’t get it?

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• Two Face,

You all have 13 days to figure it out. I will reveal the answer on the 13th if no one gets the solution before then. I don’t think it will take that long but you never know.

White Raven

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• The “i” is the door to 29 surmounted by the bulb. The pin, or target, therefore corresponds to the door to its right, door 12, which is the target in this room.

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• I’m not sure how much this is related to the “i” being lowercase, but:

BOWL + iNG + PIN
leaves S
and S is right next to 12

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• The “i” is the candle, toppled over. The pin is the target, door 12 to its right.

AND/OR

The “i” is a small Roman numeral 1. The bowling pin, like most bowling pins, has two stripes. When knocked over they will make II — Roman numeral 2.

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• The “i” is the bowling pin. The bowling pin, unlike everything else in the room, is about to fall over to the right. The only door on the right side of the room that you can take is door 12.

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• Does the white space between the candlestick and its shadow look like a bowling pin pointing at door 12 to anyone else? Makes me think of that optical illusion where you see either two faces or a candlestick/vase.

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• Put the s on the end and it says Bowling Pins. But that doesnt say much and we arent using the bowl here….sooo….um….I dont know.

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• Lower case i’s are numbers used in textbooks and papers. I think the outline format goes
I. II. II.
A. B. C.
1. 2. 3.
a. b. c.
i. ii. iii.
So ii. would be the subsection 2 of the 5th indent or something like that.

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• Or ii could just be a number 2 like at the front of a book. i ii iii iv v vi vii viii etc. If we find a 10 then we have a 12. Is it time to resort to numeric substitution nonsense on the SGN?

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• I was planning on offering another hint if necessary but you are all doing great.

Welcome Test and Saints This Way!

Rest assured, there is no alphanumeric substitution required.

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• Uhhhhhhh… maybe you could tell us which comment(s) lead you to say that? ;)

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• Count the “i”s — eyes. (The “i” matches the bowling pin, meaning that’s your target.)

If you were really in the room you would be able to see one eye on Punch (shown in profile) and two eyes on the laughing clown over the unmarked door (full face shown). Makes sense to pair them because they are both clowns.

1 (eye) 2 (eyes)

Of course, this doesn’t match the clue because it uses more than just the pin and sign.

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• More fun with counting! A pin could be a sewing pin, a pushpin, a bowling pin, or even legs — e.g. consider the expression “unsteady on his pins,” not a bad one for this room actually.

So…

6 table legs (pins)
2 legs on Punch (pins)
1 “i” that looks like a bowling pin
1 bowling pin
1 pin hidden in parasol
final pin could be… lighbulb and line of ceiling, OR pushpin hidden in candlestick, OR hidden bowling pin in negative space of candlestick and shadow

12 pins

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• Another way that the i and pin could go together is that there is a thing called an i-pin. It is used to make earrings. This makes me think about 22. It is not probably anything but I tossed it out just in case.

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• Some stuff that is not a thing.

There is no such thing as two pin bowling.The pins used in cricket are actually called stumps and there are three of them. The things on an electrical plug are called prongs not pins. BUT in India they are called pins and some plugs have two of them!

Yeah no.

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• The “i” on the sign looks like the bowling pin, telling us that the bowling pin is a sign.

The bowling pin has one stripe on the bottom (unusual for a bowling pin) and two on the top. When it falls over to the right, the stripes will be I and II. (1 and 2, 12)

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• Here is a second hint:

So far credit goes to…
Aria for pairing the i and the pin.
Aria for identifying them as Roman numerals.
Test for suggesting that ii is the number 2.

Honorable mention to…
MIT10 for furthering the pairing of the i and pin. Saints This Way for pointing out that ii show up at the beginning of books and suggesting that perhaps the ii is just a plain old 2.

Unexpected credit to…
Aria for her one stripe, two stripe solution strikes me as having real merit. I am putting it on the summary as a potential solution. Nice!

Hint part two…
The last obvious step I referred to in the first hint was a bit tongue in cheek since the obvious step in so many of our solutions is to do an internet search.

Four days to go…

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• Test said is was the second indent. I said it was a two. That has got to be worth a little actual credit.

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• Saints This Way,

Actually Test wrote,

“Lower case i’s are numbers used in textbooks and papers. I think the outline format goes
I. II. II.
A. B. C.
1. 2. 3.
a. b. c.
i. ii. iii.
So ii. would be the subsection 2 of the 5th indent or something like that.”

Test called them numbers, listed them as such, and called it “subsection 2.” But since Test did not actually posit “2″ as the answer I will concede the point.

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• 10 in Attic (ancient Greek) numerals is a triangle. Like the arrow part of the sign? (10 + 2, etc)

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• SGN seems very familiar to me.
Social Gaming Network?
Seattle Gay News?
S-tuff not G-oing on i-N the 80s?

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• The sign is supposed to make us think of the sine function. (Aside from the pronunciation there is also the right angle setup of the two elements.)

sin12 = 0.2

Or “point” (like an arrow) 2 (from i and pin).

Pretty straightforward, right?

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• The “i”s could be two individuals. Sign is the function “sin” Two people who sin? Adam and Eve! Avoid this door it leads away from paradise.

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• The very last gasp…The feeling that SGN was familiar has faded away. Following up on Aria’s South North suggestion maybe this indicates a sundial between S and N is G for gnomon. In the Northern hemisphere (you know the bowls thing with hemispheres) the sun would be to the south (candle pointing to the left) so we follow the N side of the sign and then the bottom of the candlestick to door 12. I’m grasping at straws now.

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• SOLUTION FOR FEBRUARY:

Aria was very, very close to solving the second part of the riddle. She suggested the “sine” function as a solution which is closely related to the “sign” function “sgn(x)”.

This riddle was confirmed by a mathematics professor friend of mine, who said a lot more about how it works in regards to absolute value which I didn’t really understand so I can’t speak to that.

If correct, the solution to the SiGN riddle is ” xii ” indicating door 12.

First, the lower case ” i ” looks like the white part of the bowling pin making another ” i ”

Second, the SGN is a reference to the sign function which is abbreviated “sgn” or on calculators as “SN” or “SGN”. So the “SiGN” contains both the names “sign” and “sgn”. The sgn function in simple form is written as “sgn(x)” in a function, and the architypical representation of the function is x=sgn(x).|x| As the math prof put it, “sgn is a mathematical representation of absolute value “x”.”

The upper case “SGN” suggests that this part of the puzzle stays on the arrow sign while the lesser ” i ” is paired with the bowling pin so the solution reads ” xii ” instead of the alternate possibility ” ixi ”

Congratulations Aria, Aria again, Test, Saints This Way, and almost Aria a third time! Good job everyone!

White Raven

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• Yep. That is why it seemed familiar. High school math.

There are two other ways of making it xii instead of ixi. Capitals precede lowercase in words… You Know Like This, so DGN before ii. And more straight to it, ixi doesnt mean anything but xii means 12 so put it together so it makes sense.

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• MIT10,

Good points. I suppose ” xii ” is the only reasonable arrangement. Eight in lower case Roman numerals is ” viii ” not ” iix “, and ” ixi ” doesn’t mean anything I know of.

The potentially confusing bit is that SGN (uppercase) when it is in an actual formula can stand for something else than the sign function. Manson could have capitalized the SGN because the sign function shows up on some calculators that way. Or he could also have capitalized it to place the “x” at the beginning of ” ii “. Or he could have capitalized SGN because he thought that sgn with a capital ” I ” added to make “sIgn” would be too easy.

Another potentially confusing bit is whether or not Manson expects us to understand the sgn function and absolute value (I certainly don’t) or just see that it is in its simplest form written as sgn(x).

But regardless of the uncertainties, it is solvable. Aria was really close, the sgn function is actually mentioned on the sine function Wikipedia page, and I suspect you were one flashback away from getting it as well.

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12. Wouldn’t it be cool to have the hint… or even an EXTRA HINT! … on the only LEAP DAY of the Abyss’s active life?

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• You might as well just post it now, the point of the 10 min warning was in case we could assemble Mazecasters into a hangout, but that’s not going to happen now, so fire at will .

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13. Abyssians,

Because I have received four emails asking me when the next hint is…

I will be posting another hint in March, near or on the 1st (depends on my schedule which is unpredictable).

If you are like Rebecca, Carl or MIT10 and want to know the exact moment it will be online just post a comment and click the box “Notify me when new comments are added to this page.” Note: This only works if you have supplied a real email address.

White Raven

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14. THE HINT FOR FEBRUARY:

This pertains to Rooms 20 and 27 so it is really two hints in one. It’s not too complicated, I’ll bet basic idea of both solutions are found in less than 30 minutes…

You have all Googled tarot cards but somehow, amazingly, not noticed one of the primary features of a tarot card. Look again.

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• All I can think of offhand is that the minor arcana have suits, which include the wands/batons (or bat in 27) and cups (a cup is on a door in room 1, which you would already know if you were in room 20).

This isn’t very satisfying though b/c both cards referenced are major arcana and don’t have suits.

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• They have meaning when reversed…

Major arcana are numbered in Roman numerals…

You have to flip them over to see what they mean… hm.

In both 20 and 27 the closed doors are the ones to take…

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• They all have prediction meanings. so they all have meaning. The maze has meaning. they mean something. i am going nowhere.

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• They are opaque, and need to be flipped over, like the doors you have to open in both 27 and 20. That’s all I got for now.

Unless the phone in 20 somehow references a call-in psychic.

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• There is a tarot of baseball and even a tarot of cats, but there’s pretty much a tarot of anything you care to find, so I doubt that’s of any use.

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• OH MY GOD THE CARDS HAVE NUMBERS!!!!!!!

The hermit card is number nine which is the wrong door in twenty seven and the tower card is sixteen which is the number of step in the path. The open tower says if you have sixteen steps go this way, this closed tower is like you don’t have sixteen steps yet go this way. It totally works!!!

Not sure about the hermit card and nine since it is wrong yet but I got the tower one right?

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• The fabric in the chair in 20 looks a bit like the plaid on the back of the classic Rider-Waite deck…

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• Oh yeah I think I got the other one! The fates are the cards! It is a question and the answer is no because the hermit is blind folded. Nine is wrong because the fates, the cards, the hermit, dos not show the way. Approve my comment, approvem y comment, approve my comment,

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• One for me,

Congratulations! Yes, Aria is, I think, the first to mention on this site that the cards have numbers and you are correct about the general meaning in both rooms! Nicely done!

White Raven

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• You know, I knew that the cards had numbers. Id seen em but I was just looking at the pictures. I dont think it is possible that nobody ever mentioned them but nobody did anything with them for sure. I cant believe we didnt see that the fricken cards have numbers, what other super obvious stuff are missing?

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• Well, you’re right about that, MIT10. Both Dave G and Beelz, back in June 2014, explicitly connected the Hermit and his card number, 9, with the door number in Room 27. Some of us had also tried to do something with the Death card being 13, the number on the other door.

It’s true that we didn’t come up with this particular interpretation, but I do think it’s pretty clear that most or all of us knew that Tarot cards have numbers, and that the Hermit’s number is 9.

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• Wow, long time ago, I forgot about that. I actually confirmed that DG had the correct card and number but he never did anything valuable with this info. I’ll try to do better with my hints, fortunately it worked regardless.

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15. Abyssians,

Over the last few months the people who have been emailing me (but do not post on the site despite repeated prompting to do so…wimps) and some who post on the site have been pressing me for hints. Normally I ignore this sort of request but I figure with only a few months left till I sort of check out perhaps it is time to ante up.

Here is what I suggest: Once a month for the remaining 8 months I will offer a straight forward hint like “google African Swallows” or “what is different about the third sandwich?” I will offer the hint a few days before the 13th and then if no one gets the it, I will reveal the solution around the 13th. It could be a fun way to exit stage right…

I have about 40 solutions which have not been found yet so revealing 8 will not make a serious dent in the amount of the book left to solve, especially since who knows how many of those 40 are actually correct? Do you Abyssians like this idea? If not I could just skip it, it’s only worth it if it is fun.

White Raven

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• I can see your IP address…no fair stuffing the ballot box, but thank you for your enthusiasm.

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• Come on guys no cheating. For the record it wasn’t me, I know how to hide my IP address.

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• I love this idea but I think you should wait until right before your final deadline to reveal all of the solutions you hint at.

Will these hints include THE GUIDE PUZZLE???

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• Jimmy Buffet reference?

I like the idea of one at a time. That way if you hate the solutions you won’t all hate them at once and the group can do what this group does best…debate stuff.

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• Okay, fair enough, makes sense. And it will perhaps let us in on a new way of looking at things, which is better done sooner than later.

But would you consider allowing more than a few days between hint and solution for people who may not be able to check the site every day? Say, at least a week?

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• Yay, MIT10! I’ve missed you!

(And yes, Jimmy Buffet, who is extremely MAZEy with his eye of storm and shaker of salt and whatnot.)

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• MIT10? Dude where have you been?!

The consensus seems to be YES! so I will pick out a solution for this month. I don’t think this group will need a week, but sure I can do that. Next month I will give the hint around the 1st. I will post a hint in a few minutes, I need to pick a solution.

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• I got sick then recovered then became a reader. Like ObiWan I will be with you…always.

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16. Abyssians,

It is just my computer or does the little hand next to “LIKE” no longer show up on the comments?

White Raven

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