For saying something.
This and that.
- Image copyright 1985 by Christopher Manson
into the abyss . net
Solving Christopher Manson's MAZE and the Genre of the Immersive Puzzle
For saying something.
This and that.
- Image copyright 1985 by Christopher Manson
Love the Maze and the website! I have 3 questions — has anyone made a chart linking up the ‘noises’ heard behind doors/in the distance for each room and if it logically matches up with other rooms?
Also, ‘who’ are the other people seen in the Maze [outside our narrative group]? Like the painter, the two music players, the handstand guy with the staff guy, etc.
And is the ‘goal’ of the narrative group [being escorted by the guide] to get back out to room 1 and leave the maze?
1. Not to my knowledge, though the subject matter has been much explored. A chart might be handy, though when it comes to making useful reference material, the community is pretty worthless. I mean, I’m not going to do it–are you?
I think that in most cases a sound can be connected to either the contents of a room or an adjacent room, but there are some outstanding mysteries here.
–The singing heard in Room 19 has no obvious source, nor any known significance.
–In Room 15, the thump and footsteps might be the rabbit running from the room, though in that case it is not clear where (and how) it shuts a door. It might also be something else entirely.
That’s all I can think of–is there another noise of note tyat you found mysterious?
2. I’m not aware of anything that can be stated about the nature of the (apparent] inhabitants of the Maze beyond pure speculation.
3. There are a handful of places where the text implies that the group is seeking the center of the Maze; they explicitly attempt to solve the Riddle of the Maze while in 45; the Guide then makes reference to them finding their way out. So it does seem like their goal is similar to ours in those respects. However, there is nothing that suggests that they are aware of a 16-step path or a clue that lies along it.
There is also no room where the narrative suggests they have been to the center and are seeking the way out, other than Room 45. To some extent, this is just a consequence of the narrative being intended to make sense on the way in. However, even rooms that can’t be reached until after Room 45 don’t make reference to having been to the center. So, we really don’t know what they got up to at that point. (Not that there’s a terribly coherent narrative leading up to that point either.)
Any of you that has tried to solve the Maze, have you played a game called Blue Prince? From what I’ve understood by playing the game is that previous rooms in the maze might change the meaning based on what you might learn in other rooms. Or that they “key” to “go past” room 45 is elsewhere. That room 45 indicating to return to room 1, might mean that you need to go back from the beginning and check the rooms again.
* A room’s meaning is conditional on what you have already learned.
That room 45 structurally behaves like a tutorial interruption, reveals the rules or a permission gate. Telling you that your first reading is incomplete, that earlier rooms must now be reread with new constraints.
From my understanding thus far, Room 45 is the key that leads to a new door. The beginning of the real puzzle.
“The puzzle doesn’t unlock a door — it unlocks a lens.”
Perhaps it might be important to have the original book rather than information on the internet, because there might be pieces of information not noticable by others. The cover of the book could have clues. There might be a page inbetween pages? Words or letters might be bold, or other kinds of clues.
From my understanding Puzzle books almost never waste their cover. Or typography is information, not style.
That Room 45 tells you: “You misunderstood how to read.”
Also from the information that I can find online, Christopher Manson has never said “No one solved it.” He has only allowed the puzzle to remain unfinished.
Tell us more about The Blue Prince. You brought it up but didn’t explain how it relates to MAZE. Is it another puzzle book?
I think Rawk is talking about posting Maze online in pdf form. The host of this website did not get permission to do that, which is why all the images are so low quality.
Im not japanese, and i barelly know any japanese. but dont some of the symbols in room one look like japanese characters?
I think i can se 山 米元爪回 (not at that order) in some places. the 山 means mountain, im not sure if it can mean anything in this context, but may be worth a look by someone who actually knows the language
The shortest path in and out of the maze is 16 steps.
What is the shortest path to visit every room at least once and end in room 24?
I believe it’s possible but not 100% sure
It’s definitely possible.
There’s a whole thing about this in the discussions on the Room Interconnectivity page, if you’d like to come talk to us there, Maff!
I noticed an Ebay listing for Maze and The Rails I Tote by an account called “whiteravencollectibles”. Just in case WR is still active here, is this you? I guess it’s also possible that someone else made an account based on something they looked up about Maze in 5 seconds– this looks like the only thing the account has ever listed– but I thought it was worth asking.
Edit: This account has apparently listed quite a few things, but Maze/Rails is the only thing up right now. I guess that’s my answer. Completely valid, and I hope you’re doing ok.
If anyone is selling their books at the moment, that honestly seems smart. Maze at least is very accessible in PDF format (although I would like to know where to find The Rails I Tote) and Manson books are worth *quite a bit* of money right now due to Blue Prince. Apparently Maze (alone) SOLD for $800 on Ebay recently!
I imagine some here are face-palming themselves for having cut up their extra copies for framing the images….;) I’m looking at you, mazecasters!
Possibly worse, I gave away all my hard copies.
what about the rails i tote and practical alchemist?
I still have a copy of each. If you’re in the market, I could let you have both for a thousand.
My mother is currently scheming to steal and sell a copy (the one that got me interested 10 years ago) from a friend of hers. If anybody here is interested in a (softcover) copy of MAZE and unperturbed by a book’s history of ownership, and if this insane plan succeeds, …I suppose I can hook you up?
Heh, that IS tempting… No clue where my childhood copy went. But no, probably better if it wound up being gifted into the hands of some little kid who can be equally confused and fascinated in kind.
Somehow I doubt it’ll get there quite so fast after being auctioned on Ebay.
KonTiki! No face-palming here — Don’t forget the first step of “Let’s Decorate… with MAZE”:
1. Check to make sure you have three copies of MAZE.
Aria, maybe step 1should read: check price on ebay ;)
Hi! I just came into this book and I ve been reading and proposing my ideas.
Who are John Bailey and WR that seem to are a reference in this topic?
Is there any official solution guide provided by Manson or something similar apart from the solutions to the room 45 and path?
John Bailey ran a Maze website/mailing list twenty-some years ago. White Raven is the creator of Into The Abyss.
There is no solution guide. Manson seems to prefer not to resolve these mysteries. Take everything suggested as a solution with an appropriate grain of salt
Has anyone read “The House of Asterion” by Jorge Luis Borges? I recently discovered this website and I was exploring the Ephemera section thinking the first thing I would see recommended was that short story, but nope (maybe it is and I didn’t saw it ). It has all the myth elements present in Maze, and I think of it as an expansion of the Guide’s mind.
Borges is known for his love of labyrinths and he has several short stories about them.
Cheers from Argentina, congrats on this amazing website!
I think you’re “asterion” us in the right direction
Minotaur is quite pleased with 14 new humans)
I have for some years now linked the two in my mind! I don’t think I ever really discussed it here because I wasn’t sure it was relevant.
It’s really cool that you guys made the book interactive here on the website but…the images are such low quality, and dark. They look like mutilated copier scans. Are you able to upload higher quality images? I can’t really make out all the features in the rooms from the current images.
White Raven keeps promising to implement a feature where he mails every visitor to the website a hard copy of Maze at his expense, but I’m starting to think it will never happen. It’s infuriating.
I object to your tone, …it’s very distracting!
I don’t know what’s worse on this website, the toner or the tone.
Are all your alliterations advised or accidental?
some certainly seem serendipitous
I admittedly have often wondered why the header banners seem such a different resolution than the full page scans.
It’s just a matter of the permissions White Raven got from Manson. This website isn’t intended to replace the book itself, so it doesn’t feature high-quality reproductions of every image. But Manson was kind enough to give WR permission to put everything you see on here, which is extremely helpful to out discussions.
MAZECAST DOT COM is honoured and delighted to present an EXCLUSIVE interview with the wonderful Tonda Ros, fellow Mazehead and designer of the soon-to-be-released Blue Prince (formerly Bequest). It’s a video game inspired by MAZE, yes — but the maziness doesn’t stop there. Check it out!! (On the blog.)
Hey, sorry, I’m going insane. I swear there was a page on this site that listed media inspired by Maze… that’s where I found out about Blue Prince, so it must exist, right? I can’t seem to find it in the menus or find a link. Do any of you have the end of the URL on hand?
“bequest” will take you to the page about Blue Prince (in its early stages, before being named Blue Prince).
I don’t remember a page here specifically about Maze-inspired works, though there are some suggested similar works listed under “ephemera.”
the book Piranesi (work of fiction, it’s the main character’s nickname) by Susanna Clarke, might interest people here. I’d be surprised if she didn”t know Manson’s work. In any case she acknowledges Borges’ influence. Check out NPR’s review “Susanna Clarke Divines Magic In Long-Awaited Novel ‘Piranesi’” for good idea of what it’s like.
Hi Kon-Tiki!!! Totally agree with you on Piranesi. I’ve read it twice now — the second time because I made my book club read it. I still think about it all the time.
I liked it until they started explaining what was going on and it was all memory loss and magic and yeah yeah yeah.
Ritz, where did you go?
By the time my uncertain vincentors turned to ask me what to do I was already far away.
…Sorry! Check your Google Chat. (Actually, by the time you read this, you probably will have done so already.) Busy + chronic conversational wasting disease.
It turns out it is really hard to make a Riddle of the Maze type puzzle, even with MS Excel. I will try again later. No Atlas Shoulders for me.
Ok, now that I have done this correctly, I will share my very incorrect attempt. This was meant to be the *solution* to a puzzle, but that became obfuscated because of the time I spent making the word order correspond.
Behind us lies this craft untrue
Before would go to stillness through
Below you make more chaperones
Above all wake on present thrones
don’t do what house will all live in kids
So wait, did your original vision become a room 45 association/sentence assembly type puzzle with text taking the place of images? Or is this still the solution, just to a scrapped puzzle? I quite like it as a poem, either way. “Making” chaperones particularly caught me.
LIES CRAFT and UNTRUE in first sentence = trickery
numbers can be divined out of this, too, though that’s pretty unremarkable
(b4 would go 2… chaper1s)
and finally, some of these sentences seem fragmented in a way that makes me want to stitch them together. “before you wake”
Haha, I appreciate your analysis but that’s exactly the problem. It’s essentially a random, vaguely relevant “solution” (to a riddle I haven’t made yet lol) which I generated iteratively based on certain constraints. I don’t want to say too much more because if I ever finish this project I think you’ll like it. Suffice it to say there is no deeper meaning to be found here.
A nonsensical puzzle with no solution, built around unknown constraints and accompanied by confusing explanations. Seems like a pretty faithful Riddle of the Maze.
finally got my copy. flipped through it, taking in the detailed pencil art for the first time in years, savoring how the book flipped open so neatly in my hands, caught always by the deep intent with which every clue is drawn. flip to page 24 of course. there’s a sticky note there. “WTH DID I JUST TELL U! >:0″
~~~
Hi, I’m Kiki (she/her), and it’s no exaggeration to say that I’ve been lurking intermittently on this site for at least 10 years. MAZE is not for me, but it’s very good at making me think it is, and so I just keep coming back. I make videos now– not successfully or anything, I just like talking. Maybe I’ll talk about MAZE sometime.
That’s what brought me here, but I do other things too. Niche art projects, games and puzzles, lots of reading– I have spreadsheets.
Where can we find you on youtube?
youtube dot com slash at inolienkiki
or search kiki’s inner monologue
great to hear from you! I’m going to start listening to mazecast so I can catch up with the current theories situation
You should engage with MazeCast, if at all, only as a cautionary tale.
In all seriousness, MazeCast provides an accurate record of a collective descent into madness, and a partial recovery from it. Approach with caution and sympathy. You’ll see more sanity there than here, but that’s damning with faint praise.
If you really want to cultivate your Maze obsession, you might do better to join the MazeCast google hangout. I left a link in a comment on your youtube channel. The festivities await.
I’m enjoying MazeCast so far, but I’m only a few episodes in. I can absolutely sympathize with this sort of intense focus and analysis. I was glad to see that you all started out so disillusioned with most of the puzzles and particularly the main riddle- I feel similarly, but still I can’t leave.
I don’t see your comment, and I don’t think it was caught in the spam filter, so I’m not sure what happened to it. I also thought Google Hangouts had been strangled years ago but I suppose it’s the platform to be expected for discussion about the unsolvable riddles of a 40-year-old puzzle book.
I don’t see it anymore either! Hmph! I’m going to try to post it again to your recent poll.
I still don’t see it. Not even in my spam folder. YouTube must be filtering it out before I can even check. Trash website.
If you have it, maybe try my Tumblr? I think you can send asks if you don’t have an account.
tumblr dot com slash blog slash inolienkiki
It might be an efficient shortcut to just contact me from a gmail address. My gmail is vewatkin at gmail dot com. (That is, assuming you actually want to join the hangout, and aren’t just intent on reading my comments.)
I’ve been here intermittently for years too! Not lurking always, just don’t get a lot of interaction lol. I kind of feel like I get what you mean, I don’t feel the riddles are necessarily for me, as I get confused by a vast majority of the comments here, but I personally just get lost in the narrative and world of the maze. Cool to see another… I won’t say casual, as I don’t think either of us are, but just another person who engages differently.
Hi!! I have been doing the same thing- lurking on forums, documenting ny own work and fitting it in with that of others, but I finally ordered the book and am excited to jump into it with all the photos clearly printed in my hands.
I’ll see you around.
After 4 years, I have one-and-a-half minutes of my Mazecast YTP to show for myself. Watch it and weep. Mazecast never dies!
youtube dot com slash watch?v=BqQG3Wez8Xw
I don’t really play video games but I do like to watch trailers and playthroughs of ones that catch my interest. I recently watched some videos on “The Exit 8″ and it seems like one that Maze people might enjoy.
This is quite neat! Doesn’t seem to rely on cheap scares in the same way a lot of other “backrooms” styled games do. Thank you for sharing it!
I finally read House of Leaves. I was aware of its daedalian-ness going into it, but I was surprised at its similarities with Maze. I think they’re pretty much trying to evoke the same things.
Maze is accessible and often branded a children’s book. House of Leaves is dense and unfriendly, even from the first page (“this is not for you.”) It evades rereads, even first reads. In this way, it captures the feeling of Room 24 better than Maze ever could, because many readers will get lost in it and quit in frustration. But Maze captures the feeling of Navidson’s mysterious hallway, a gate that keeps drawing you back in. I can’t imagine someone reading Maze once and then never trying again.
I got the feeling that House of Leaves was a little more confident than Maze in its unique formatting. Maze pulls its 29 gambit and doesn’t push its luck past that. I mean, it can be argued that the ergodic, decade-spanning undertaking of decrypting clues goes deeper than House of Leaves ever did. But the act of piecing together room clues is only pushed in the reader’s face in the introduction. Maze lays its mysteries out in plain sight, in objects and text that will be ignored as the rooms are navigated. You can read the book without caring about its rules. House of Leaves is unreadable in this way. You don’t discover turning it upside-down, you have to.
I loved House of Leaves. We’re all Holloways here.
I enjoyed House of Leaves a lot when I read it, enough that I was very excited to read Only Revolutions, and then very disappointed in the little bit that I read, and then curious again to finish it, and then resigned to make it all the way through, and then gratified to an extent. A decade or so down the road, it’s Only Revolutions that has stuck with me more, although maybe just because it was so much more of an ordeal.
I like Danielewski’s approach to writing more than I like his actual writing. He comes up with ambitious concepts that depend on a lot of precise decorative elements and structural commitment, and he puts in the effort to perfect those aspects. Ultimately, the structure and the ornamentation overwhelm the traditional narrative elements, which may sound like a criticism, but it’s not–if I were to describe beautiful architecture in terms of its structure and ornamentation, well, you get the point, there’s nothing wrong with that.
For the first time in years, I found one of White Raven’s hidden webpages, but I was half-asleep and didn’t save it…
Maybe it was just a dream! I remember it was some sort of dialogue between two characters
Browsing history?
Oh, so it was real. Enter “marienbad” in the URL. (Maybe this is already known to be linked somewhere, though.)
Not to my knowledge! Good work.
“For the first time in years…” what others have you found?
Can’t quite remember, but try entering “pages” in the URL too
Merry Christmas, everybody! Can we all come up with one more bad idea before the end of the year?
Achelous is associated with both a horn and a pitcher.
And a bull!
For my suitor was a river-god, Achelous, who in three shapes was always asking me from my father—coming now as a bull in visible form, now as a serpent, sheeny and coiled, now ox-faced with human trunk, while from his thick-shaded beard wellheads of fountain-water sprayed. In the expectation that such a suitor would get me, I was always praying in my misery that I might die, before I should ever approach that marriage-bed. But at last, to my joy, the glorious son of Zeus and Alcmena came and closed with him in combat and delivered me.
-Wikipedia
Well, I was thinking specifically of 33′s pitcher and horn, and the -on ending.
My fault, everybody. I should have asked whether we could EACH come up with a bad idea by the end of the year.
Also, “Achelous” doesn’t end with “-on.” I was thinking of Acheron, who I was reading about for some reason. I can’t even remember who Achelous is. Or Acheron.
Acheron is the river at the entrance of the underworld and Achelous is a different river, with the god Achelous being the personification of it. Achelous is related to horns and pitchers indeed (his fight with Herc/Heracles where his horn got torn off, poor guy…) but I can’t think of how Acheron would relate to 33. Though the lighting is pretty hellish
I wasn’t actually so incurious that I didn’t look “Acheron” up, but I thought it was appropriate to leave my mistake up, and receive the shame it merited.
I guess I did it more for the sake of just having the definitions of both up to think about, I don’t know… I should never doubt if you’ll validly verify veracity Vince!
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! I can’t believe INTO THE ABYSS is 8 years old, and MAZECAST is 7 years old. Time flies when you’re having fun.
time sucks, screw time
something something room 13…
Genuinely though that is so impressive! I really admire the dedication!