Room 19

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…a shaded portico. A late afternoon sun warmed the rough blocks of stone.

“Get out of the way!” someone called. We moved into the yard, squinting at the strong light.

One of them sat on a marble bench after I politely pushed some flowers aside. “Did you pick these for me?” she asked, looking me in the eye. I had to tell her the truth.

In another part of the grounds someone was singing, but they couldn’t make out the words.

Like children they soon became restless and impatient to see something new, so we went on to…

 - Image and text copyright 1985 by Christopher Manson
used with permission. [Purchase MAZE from Amazon]

 

Room Type:  LOOP     Doors:  11  23  31  45

Solution Summary: [COLLECTION CURATED BY WHITE Raven. SEE COMMENTS FOR ADDITIONAL SOLUTION PROPOSALS.]

● The statue of a man holding a sun is paired with the artist by both wearing the same gnome-like hat. [Independent Credit: Hello Gregor | White Raven] The statue of a man holding a sun is a visual code for Manson (man-sun). The artist is a self portrait of Christopher Manson the author of MAZE. [Independent Credit: Dave G | MAZE Podcast 2 | White Raven]

● The text includes the line, “looking me in the eye, I had to tell the truth.” The artist is looking directly at us, suggesting we trust the artist related clues. [Independent Credit: David Gentile | White Raven] The sun on the statue has 11 points, the wrong door, while artist/Manson’s easel has 3 legs and the prominent paintbrush adds 1 making 31 the correct door. [Independent Credit: Dave G | Hello Gregor | White Raven]

● The statue of the man holding the sun is exactly three times taller than the artist. Suggesting the combined number 31. [Credit: vewatkin]

● The three pillars further away from the viewer overlap while the closest pillar stands alone suggesting the number 31. [Credit: vewatkin]

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109 thoughts on “Room 19

  1. We are missing something with that singing. The outdoor music is strings not song. I’ve guessed birdsong. The artist singing and the number 31 singing.

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  2. You can’t look Sun man in the eye because you’d have to squint. And is that circle the eye of the Sun?

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  3. I didn’t watch the pod cast except the first six minutes. I was going off the fact that you said you thought the authentic manson was still out there so I figured it had to be in 19. Started by playing with Sun man and man son. But if Watkins said anything it pod cast give him that too. Personally I was more surprised that the art easel and the brush was not partial credit since that has been around at least since 2012. Also in 2012 I thought the guide was Daedalus/Manson sort of alter-ego thing and had the Artist as Manson then. I changed it to just Dadelus when I thought guide was Mjnotaur. Never noticed 11 points. Only noticed back turned today. Made the “looking in eye” connection since I’m aware of that as part of the Raven guide thing and already had “honesty in art” so again – no idea what Watkins had or got close to. But give him independent credit for anything he got close to I’d say.

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    • We could just split the difference and credit it to V-Watt’s Electric Labyrinth Love featuring David Gentile on hammer dulcimer.

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    • David Gentile,

      Thank you for the full reply! Making changes…

      White Raven

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    • IF CREDIT MUST BE GIVEN, would you mind just crediting–

      Oh, I was going to ask you to just credit the podcast, but that’s a little complicated, since the podcast is simply called “MAZE by Christopher Manson [02],” and that could be a confusing credit indeed.

      Will you credit it as “MAZE Podcast 02″?

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    • vewatkin,

      I credited it as MAZE Podcast 2, instead of 02, just in case you have more than 99. :)

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  4. Does the artist need to be identified as Manson in order to solve the puzzle? Seems like an Easter Egg.

    However, the only two times I’m aware of that the Guide is used directly in the clue- represented by something actually on the page- is when there is a Manson. I know the Mansun in 4 is said not to be a Manson (although there is an M in the stars by his sun head), but I did get credit for going off the right hand of that Mansun when the text said something happened with a door to The Guide’s right.

    Here, we look in The Guide’s eye and that’s meant to translate to Manson/The Artist/The Gnome’s eye.

    So, if both of those solutions are correct and there are no counter examples (where the Guide’s person is joined between text and visual via some version of Mansun), I’ve gotta conclude that there are multiple Mansun clues in this book (if at least two is multiple) and that The Guide is Manson.

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    • I do remember an interview where Manson said that when he was a kid his neighbors were a giant and a jester’s head on a stick.

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  5. I think the gnome hat is still better described as a Greek pilos and it still represents Icarus’s tomb, I think. Just a false hint towards Daedalus as guide.

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  6. The sun is lighting #11 as said. – maybe even suggestive of that circle in the sun he is holding.

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    • David Gentile,

      Correct! Bumping it up one and putting it together with your statue reference!

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  7. The statue-reflection’s staff points up at the wrong door- 11.
    The artist in shadow points down at the number three made by the outline of his arm, side, pallet, and leg.

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    • Hello Gregor,

      Upon close inspection (see related images) I think you may be right! Opinions anyone?

      White Raven

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  8. I’m wondering if Manson meant he only put his full name in the Maze once. Because that would be 3 for me. There is a bit of Christopher there. But that leaves room for Manson here. We still need to find out what role that plays in the puzzle, however.

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    • This seems as legit to me as the three-legged easel and paintbrush cluing 31. Attention is further brought to this light/dark contrast by the white and black hats of Manson and Sunman.

      (I don’t think the statue directly clues to man-sun, since you would typically describe a sun-themed man as a “sun-man” before a “man-sun”; however, because Sunman is a “backwards” version of Manson, it still brings us around to identifying the artist as Christopher Manson. I think there’s a bit of self-deprecation here, with Manson depicting himself as a shriveled little gnome, and depicting his–I don’t know–bizarro-self, as a tall, strapping Adonis.)

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    • In order from front to back:

      Bush pots -
      2/3 lit
      1/4 lit
      2/3 lit
      fully lit (though it looks a bit dark the shadow lines make this clear)

      Bushes -
      almost fully lit
      uncertain, half maybe?
      1/2 lit
      fully lit (see comment above about being dark)

      Bushes by relative lightness regardless of shadow lines and the counter evidence of the pots -
      lightish
      darkish
      lightish
      lightish

      Does this mean 31?

      Also there are four pillars and four shadows and the artist is next to one pillar and in its shadow. Does this mean 31?

      I’m not convinced but not opposed either, what do all of you think?

      White Raven

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    • Nah, and on further inspection, I don’t think it’s even as solid as the easel + paintbrush. And I hate that solution too!

      There’s just too much fuzziness in the shading there to really say that three are dark and one light without being forced to do so.

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  9. Looking solution, take 1.
    “A late afternoon sun…”
    “….squinting at the strong light.”
    “….looking me in the eye.”
    The sun has 11 points.
    “…impatient to see something new, so we went to…”
    They’re tired of looking at 11. 31 is new.

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    • So sun-man is clearly telling us the wrong way with that 11 pointed sun.

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    • Hello Gregor – Correct! The sun’s 11 points relate to door 11. Everything else you listed is part of this riddle or it’s opposite.

      David Genile – Correct! The statue’s back turned means avoid the 11 as indicated by the sun’s points.

      You two are on a roll!

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  10. How about:

    Since sun-guy has his back turned to us, we should not follow his guidence. The artist does shading and we should follow him. 31 catches partial shade, so that is correct.

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  11. How about the Artist is Manson the artist, and the thing behind him is a sun-man. Manson is telling us the correct way, and he is closer to us than the statue.

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    • David Gentile,

      Correct! The man holding the sun points to Manson and the artist is Christopher Manson’s self portrait, see related images above…and yes, he had a dark beard when he made maze.

      Keep going, how are the statue and artist connected and how is the artist telling us the right door?

      White Raven

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    • Greg hopes it’s not the three legged easel and the one paintbrush.

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    • Hello Gregor,

      I am SO sorry. It IS the three legs and paintbrush but there is another riddle which reinforces this, and another different riddle involving the artist. With a heavy heart, bumping it up one.

      White Raven

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    • I am opposed to crediting solutions, but not to plugging podcasts! I would like to note that the Room 19/Sun-Man/Manson self-portrait connection was suggested by last night’s podcast.

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    • What he’s saying is that he’d like you to credit Vance Watling and his Public Defense Squad.

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    • David Gentile,

      vewatkin, doesn’t care about credit, he has made that clear in an email to me in which he argued for no credits at all – a position that I respect and feel for. But in the end I do care about credit, I feel credit is motivational for most people and I have no problem with a long list of credits if a solution is arrived at communally.

      The timing seems extraordinary and so I put it to you, is it from the podcast or do I credit you and vewatkin? It’s your call.

      White Raven

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    • I don’t think Gentile is trying to steal credit for anything; he’s just working with the ideas floating around, same as the rest of us. With a podcast, google hangouts, a wiki, and the abyss forums, it’s hard to have a conversation and keep track of what should be credited to whom, or whether it already has been. Frankly, the member of the group who posts an idea here is often an arbitrary choice that implies little about its true source; I think most of my credits would more appropriately be assigned to the group.

      Actually, we’ve been working on a group name for the ease of credit citation, but we got hung up on listing the stupidest names conceivable.

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    • And then we decided upon Vance Watling’s Public Defense Force.

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  12. Ah – one additional way for 31:

    The artist is painting “live”, and the tomb represents “death”. One is closer to us , and the correct door is closer to us.

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  13. Still not completely satisfied here, but a lot of the room is accounted for. Nothing like a whole room puzzle or a really super exit indicator yet, however.

    In room 22 in the TRAP we are directed here to look for clues for escape. These should direct us to room 6 and looking into Raven’s eye there. The key clue here is “she looked me in the eye” of course.
    The music we might think is coming from 36. It is the only outdoor room which is not part of this group of outdoor rooms. But there is no “singing” mentioned there. Rather I think it is bird song, “They” could not make out the words. But maybe since the guide is a bird, he could. And this would be a hint that the guide is a bird, and that that is important.
    I think the artist it is Icarus himself “escaping” from his tomb. What is he painting? “Get out of the way!” he yells. He is painting us, out here, through the 4th wall. Combine this with our recent lesson in 23 that “pictures do not lie” and the reinforcement here by the guide who could not lie here, we have to conclude that a painting of the real world would mark a gateway into the real world. Just like we can “LIVE!” as trap room 11 instructs, I think Icarus is symbolically trying to exit the tomb here.
    The correct exit is 31 and this might be indicated in a variety of ways. But the best I know is to stick with the “art does not lie” theme and note that the easel has three legs and there is one paint brush.

    But “someone” is in the text twice and therefore is very probably a clue. Maybe it is as simple as “some one” where 3 = some and one = 1. “some one” = “3 1”.

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  14. There is a mystical funhouse mirror in-between the painter and the statue. Notice their hats and their poses- they are similar, but the statue stands in strong light and the painter is gnomelike with his brush.
    The suggested symmetry highlights the asymmetry.
    Had the mirror been perfect, 11 would be the way to go. Since it is not, we go to 31.

    This room is different in that most of the textual action takes place outside of the frame. I do not know if the singer is in this room or not. A dreamy bit of prose.

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  15. This is the room the ball that went into room 23 was hit from. The bat is left in 27. I believe it was the person hitting the ball and not the painter saying “Get out of the way!” so no one would get hurt by the ball.

    Question: How close is this room to room 16? Are these the same columns that are visible outside that room?

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    • Could be the ball player yelling. Does not help, however… :(

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