This is a page to discuss room to room clue trails and how rooms relate to one another…
Things we know:
● Along the 16 room path is a hidden phrase “Like Atlas you bear it upon your shoulders.” We know this phrase is correct, it was confirmed by the publisher. The first seven rooms each contain a hidden word in the correct order. Then we reach Room 45, the center of the House, with The Riddle of Room 45 in it, which does not contain a part of the phrase. What happens next is disputed. The undisputed letters are: Room 8 “S” – Room 12 “D” “U” – Room 39 “R” – Room 4 “L” – Room 20 “S” The disputed letters are: Room 23 “O” or Room 39 “O” – Room 15 “H” – Room 37 “E”
● The rooms of 16 step path are in a figure 8 or infinity symbol.
● The rooms of the trap can be arranged as a two prong key as illustrated by Manson in MAZE.
● Along the path are two live animals a tortoise and a hare. The hare is in Room 15, the tortoise, at the end of the trip is in Room 20, recalling the Aesop Fable of the Tortoise and the Hare. The correct choice in Room 1 to begin the 16 step path is the door marked “FABLE.” Amazingly, in Aesop’s Fables the Tortoise and the Hare is fable number 226, the correct door number is 26…to 26 = 226?
We also have another mini-multi-room puzzle of the leaning signs. Here is the inventory:
The mirror in 7 leans. And then we have: The signs for 34 and 35 in room 25, the tower in room 20, the snakes in 21, the “Z” in 45, the men in 28/12, the dancers in 10. 34 is “I”. 35 is “Raven/Guide”, the tower can represent “revelation”, the snakes are “the Tao/Way/Path”, The “Z” I take as “IN”, the men are men, and the dancers are souls. Leaving out “Raven/Guide” and the mirror, I get: “I reveal the path in men’s souls”. And I think both Raven and the mirror are suppose to do that when we look at them.
New basic map of MAZE up on my page. Bottom of first page is one link to it.
A SOLILOQUY ON SIR TOPPEM HAT:
My theory on the top hat man is that “top hat” is an anagram for “to path” and indeed in at least 3 rooms that he appears complete with hat (room 7, room 10, room 16) he is hinting towards the right door. This is not a conflict of interest with Vance’s theories on Sir Toppem Hat, it could even strengthen them if we find out more, but my recent obsession with anagrams did unearth this fact, and I think it’s pretty sound, but not trustworthy if applied loosely (if you assume the person in Room 34 is him, he is deceptive). SO it’s still a floating theory, but with promise.
I was going to say how does he hint in 10. But his baton does. Whatever else Mr yes is he does not have a top hat.
So then what about a lost top hat in 18 and 42? Does not seem to do much. But then. “Lost to path” makes no sense either.
Works in room 3 too
In 42 guide says sincerely he would help them to return. Top hat marks return path to 1.
18 is complex but it works. The G clef goes to 44 and base clef to 9. Hat marks 9. And that is where you should have gone if you lost a step and came here direct from 3
Yep I had “lost step” in 18 but with top hat we have “to lost path step”
The word SHOULDERS is spelled out of order on the way out.
Note in Room 23 the word “shoulder” can be found in the text, providing a clue to the word for which the next rooms will provide the letters. I believe the letters are given in an obvious way once OR, they are given in a hidden way twice so that they reinforce each other. Manson seems quite aware that the more hidden something is, the more times it has to be given to make it clearly intentional.
Room 23 “nothing” gives us a hidden “O”.
Room 08 = S (obvious), but also “E” hidden in table legs.
Room 12 = U, D (obvious)
Room 39 = R (obvious), “O” hidden as tire.
Room 04 = L. In the diagram of the maze posted to a wall, the word ELL is spelled out. (reasonably obvious, but I would not be surprised to find another “L” along the path now).
Room 15 = H. 7 major objects start with H: HEART, HARE, HATS (x2), HOUSE, HEROES, HELMET. (This is a hidden one).
Room 37 = E. All of the objects end with “E” — Eye, Table, Sphere, Bottle, Vase, Cone, Dice (or die), rope. (The text gives the clue to look at things from all sides). (This is a hidden one). But then the room level solution to 37 is “H20” and I believe you need to find that there to resolve the conflicting indicators in that room. So we have another hidden “H”.
Room 20 = S. You might think there are two S’s here, but no; one of the S’s is “extra!” (obvious “S”)
Congratulations again here (see Solution page) for putting the E from 8 together with the Riddle of the Path!
Room word values for connecting rooms 34,10,41 – I measure one.
I suppose over in 14 your measure is rather small….
These rooms should be on the right of the glasses but mean nothing to me right now: 28 32 19 31 21 44.
36 16 and 7 are on left of loop I think.
Maybe a raised eyebrow? That’s all I got.
So if we tried to make a message of the parts that have a clear shape we get – key, eyes.
Loop can be drawn as a circle with one dot in middle too. 27. Loop goes from 25 to 35 and through 9. Then we have eyes connected to one eye by a line. And still have key.
Can you show us the map of the loop with one room in the middle of a circle?
Geez. If you draw pupils in eyes where they fall based on room connections they look to the left. Towards loop rooms.
Also note Raven poem is recited around the Raven eye in the map.
I’m not at a computer and don’t have good graphics tools. But loop is 33 3 9 18 13 25 35 and 27 is in middle connected with 9 and 13. 3 and 18 have an extra connection. Draw it outside circle.
There is exactly one room in the middle of each loop of the 8. 2 and 5. This makes it look like a pair of eyes. Huh.
34 , 10, 41. Connect eye to eyes. 14 hangs off 10. I have no reason for that at the moment.
Well, no need to be mysterious about it. Yes there are dropped items here and there, hat, suit, maybe bowtie.
Ballarina is a soul. Both in 10 and on wall in 40. Top Hat guy is more specificly “My soul” in 3 where “stop” is “heart of Christopher” and “stop” is also heart of Christopher in 35. 34 represents him again via “my door”,
But top hat is “Maze guide Raven” in room 16. Connection: soul of Manson = maze guide raven.
Interestingly he is then peeking out from us above the minotaur mirror in 7.
And I’ve concluded images representing himself don’t count. He really only put his “name” in once and both Christopher and Manson are puzzle parts in 3.
And BTW that is one way that some souls will live in the world.
Here’s a trail of things, not sure what to make of it, not sure it’s one trail, or really a trail at all, but we’ve all been noticing this kind of stuff without making a clear record of it.
The trail involves two men, or perhaps the same man at different times, going through the loop, and the crown symbol.
For the sake of simplicity, I’ll start in Room 16. There, we have the tophatted man (Tophat) running toward 7, and a crown in the doorway to 7. Go to 7.
In 7 we have the picture of Tophat on the left wall, and also a picture of a crowned man on the bottom left. Go to 33.
In 33, I see no sign of Tophat, but there is an image of a crown over the door to 7. Go to 3.
In 3, there is no crown, but there is a stick-figure drawing of Tophat by the door to 18. Go to 18.
In 18, Tophat has left his hat. No crown. Go to 13.
13 seems to be a break in this already tenuous chain. No Tophat, no crown–it has been suggested that the discussion of time’s strange operation within the Maze may be relevant to the characters’ movement here, but who knows? We go to 25.
In 25, we have a crown, and a bald man in a bowtie who may well be Tophat, now deprived of the hat he left in 18. We go to 34.
In 34, we see a man leaving the room, headed back to 25. I do not believe this man is Tophat, as Tophat wears a tuxedo with long tails (see 16) and this man (Mr. Yes) wears a normal length suit jacket with matching pants. He seems to have dropped his cane. We can’t see the top of his hat well enough to know whether it’s a top hat. This man is headed back to 25. I’m not sure what Yes is up to, and we don’t seem to have as many direct clues of him, though perhaps he digs the hole from 27 to 9, leaves the door open in 44, steals/is the statue in 32…
Anyway, continuing on, we go to Room 10.
Room 10 has the picture of the man in a top hat, tuxedo, bow tie, with a baton of some kind, which is also left in this room. Here, his clothes seem much lighter than anywhere else, but that may just be a stylization of the drawing. Go to 41.
In 41 the trail has gone cold…OR HAS IT? Look at what that doll is pointing to on her head–it’s Tophat’s bowtie!
We go to 35, and we’ve almost come full circle. Now, the odd thing in 35 is that the suit we find hanging here is Mr. Yes’s suit, not Tophat’s tuxedo.
From here, it’s back to 33, where we’ve been before.
Now, this trail, if it’s related to anything, doesn’t necessarily travel in one way. As I acknowledged, Yes seems to be moving the opposite direction as that I moved in my explanation. The crowns peter out at 25, and 13 has no symbols of this path on it, despite my generously allowing anything associated with Tophat, Yes, or the crown to constitute a path marker.
But there’s something going on here, eh?
Not accounted for her is Room 42, which contains a top hat and canes and–boy, look at the top of that coat rack; is that a crown? Anyway, there’s that, there’s Room 15 where someone seems to leave right before you come in, there are the rooms I mentioned above with regard to Mr. Yes…
I think there’s something to be made of this, but we’re not there yet.
I do think I can make something out of some of that, but later. For now, take the crown out of it. It always is paired with something bear/bare/bald.
The exception is 33 – there it has to be a crown to get something as obscure as the crown and dagger society of 7s. 7, the crowned guy has a bear skin. In 16 – the crown lays in the doorway with bear skin right on other side in 7. 25 bald crown. crown laid bare for all to see. 42 – may be a crown in a room with a bear.
21 has a lot of “C”s? I see two if you go crescent wrench and craine, which I’m not sure that is. It does have a crest. The doors are not in the same pattern like 1 and 10 are, either.
But I again assert that in 2 “B” just gives follow the broom. The doors are not labels in the same way as in room one here. The broom labels one door “B”, and the “arrow head” and “crescent” at the tops of the other spears label the other 2 doors “A” and “C”. And door “B” is correct.
And again T=20 is very useful, you just need to subtract the “extra S” or “extra 19″ and you get exit 1.
Regarding objects as letters:
As is well known in the first room images on the doors can be taken as representing the letters A B C and D. In a few rooms most of the objects in those rooms start with the same letter. The rooms that strongly contain this connection without resorting to uncommon words are 2, 10, 15, 20, and 21. Their associated letters are B, B, H, T and C.
In room 15(H) the letter is part of the riddle of the path. In rooms 2(B) and 20(T) the room number matches the letter alphanumerically, but not in the other three. In rooms 10(B) and 21(C) the letter corresponds to the correct door in a fashion consistent with the letter assignments in Room 1, however in Room 2(B) the letter points to a door leading to The Trap. Thus:
2 . B alphanumeric / incorrect door
10 B correct door
15 H riddle-part
20 T alphanumeric / nothing
21 C correct door
This reinforces Hello Gregor’s suggestion that alphanumeric identifies a red herring letter. A non-red herring letter either is a part of the riddle of the path or, as David Gentile suggested, is an indicator of the correct door according to the plan laid out in Room 1.
I am not yet confident in this interpretation.
I’ve indicated there is a way out of the TRAP. But that assumes you don’t land in 24 directly. 4, 21, and 14 do that. Now if you get there from 14 that’s your own darn fault, lol. 4 and 21 are really not warned against in any very notable way. That bother’s me. Hmmmmm…
Re: Maze Time
There’s been considerable thought into how the time of day changes depending on the room one is in. Has anyone considered whether or not what day it is might also change? There is a mention in one of the rooms of it being later in the week than the group realizes…
I’m not aware of any means of guessing a day of the week. I suspect the mention in that room relates to the word “week” on the wall and nothing more.
If it IS a particular day of the week, it’s pretty damn sure Sunday.
Perhaps that’s a clue to the identity of the Guide! Since there are two camps- one that puts Sunday at the beginning of the week and another that puts it at the end, if it’s Sunday, we know the Guide is in the latter camp! Brilliant!
Bingo. Thank you. It is Saturday in the loop rooms. In is Sunday morning at the gate
To pull together solutions offered by Anchorperson Smith, vewatkins & Janice regarding The Trap rooms:
Room 6 & Room 11 point to Room 40.
Room 40 points to Room 38.
Rooms 38, 22 & 43 form a loop.
I’m missing some parts of that. Has anyone posted a director from 38 to 43?
Has anyone posted a director from 43 at all?
No. No one has posted anything direction-wise regarding rooms 38, 22 & 43 and I am not suggesting there are door indicators to find…they are just in a loop.
Sorry for the confusion.
We found dual directional indicator in 22. The trident gives you a 3 and you can just as easily pick a 4 as an 8. I just found one today from 43 to 22. And maybe a good chunk of one from 38 to 22 the other day. So I’m pretty sure all roads,lead to 22 in the Trap. But my way out in 22 was wrong. So still stuff to find there.
And minor point – I think I posted the director from 22 to 43 after someone else came up with the one from 22 to 38.
A word on bumbershoots:
Upon a cursory inspection, I noted four umbrellas in the Maze. However, I haven’t seen it noted before that these umbrellas are all distinguishable by their handles.
Prologue: white, rounded handle
8: darker handle, bent at a 90 degree angle instead of curved
10: tied shut, dark handle, something between curves and right angles
42: white handle, shaped like a bird’s beak
So, no, nothing to go with that observation, just saying.
42 is a claw I think, and helps with that room. NOt sure if square handle in 8 matters (an angle like room is angled?), or tied shut in 10, but maybe it does.
42 looks like the head of a bird
A bit, yes. HEre is why I think “claw” : The text gives us “count on me”, a clue to count things. We can count on the dice. On one die we see 1, 2, 3, and on the other die 4 total spots, and 4 is the correct exit.
The text also says something about claws and tusks, although bears do not have tusks. However, we can count claws and tusks. 1 claw on the umbrella, and notice it really is claw shaped and is different than the handle of other umbrellas we will see. Also, umbrella handles and walking sticks were traditionally made from ivory in the past, and given the elephant’s foot umbrella stand, and “tusk” in the text, I think we are meant to infer these are made from elephant tusks. So, 1 claw on the umbrella, 2 “tusks” in the form of canes, 3 “claws” in the form of toenails on the elephant food, and 4 claws on the bear’s paw holding the sign.
We can also count sets of accessories. 1 – lone boot, 2 – a hat and coat (brought to our attention in the text), 3 items in the umbrella stand, 4 boots in the center of the room.
Here is what I believe the time is in various rooms:
1 – FA – morning outside.
26 – FB
30 – FC
42 – FD
4 – FE (hey that’s Iron) but GE on return trip perhaps. And the fact that they are both “E” makes them both happen at once in a sense. Noon outside.
29 – FF (a little like the 7s in the candles)
17 – FG
23 – GA (late afternoon outside)
8 – GB
12 GC (rain/wind time outside)
4 return – GE? And is it noon again outside? Did a night pass very quickly outside? Is it midnight? Fits with Pluto the cat.
15 – GF
37 – GG (we have sun outside again, unsure if mid afternoon, or wee hours of night)
1 on return could be ‘HA!”
Trap rooms – maybe timeless. F/G A from Trident? In 6 we see a little light. (You know I just found Herod here and in the TV Jesus Christ Superstar he is presented as gay ,and F-A-G? hmmm.
Loop rooms -
10 – EH
34 – EG
25 – EF
13 – EE
18 – ED
9 – EC
3 – EB
33 – EA
41 – unsure.
25 – unsure
7 – ?
19 – seems to be about same time as 23.
31 – about same time as 8 or 12
44 about same time as 12
21 – unknown
16 ?E it seems
36 ?A in seems and Evening outside, like 19
Humans may have finally exited the food chain thanks to evolution and ingenuity, but we aren’t the toughest creatures on this planet. (If you took away our technology and toys.) In fact, we’re not even the biggest.
Compared to these 22 behemoths, we’re tiny and frail. There are domesticated animals that dwarf us… and then there’s the giant oarfish, man o’ war jellyfish and much, much more. These animals are so naturally big, it’s freaky.
There is no good reason for animals this large to exist, unless it’s to haunt our dreams (which they will). If you’re ever on vacation in Japan or China, it’s probably a good idea to stay out of the waters, unless you want giant jellyfish, salamanders, stingrays or crabs nibbling on your toes.
The above comment is spam but it is such awesomely surreal spam that I am leaving it.
LOL I agree, at first I thought it was some kind of cryptic clue for us.
It seems almost like part of a reading comprehension test where they have you read a short essay and then answer multiple choice questions about the main idea.
It’s keywords for linkbaiting.
There must be a limit on comment depth, because I couldn’t respond the end of a series of comments. I’ll say here:
I agree that when we imagine the True Path as a figure eight, the sinister/right clues might well mean that we move left first, and then move right, rather than meaning that we start at the left and end up on the right.
You know what’s super stupid? I’ve been going on about how important the number 8 is the the True Path and the measurement of time, but only mentioned in passing that the True Path itself FORMS AN EIGHT. Well, at least if you draw it that way.
Ugh, and here I go stretching further, but room 23 has that language about finding “the door they had been seeking for so long,” which I presumed was a red herring to confuse people who were just flipping through the book trying to find the route to room 45. But here we have it, room 8 referred to as the door they had been seeking for so long. Big deal, that number eight!
One annoying stretch further: if room 23 is in fact the leftmost point, the tilt in room 8 could represent our journey up the figure eight as we move back to the right. But this would be the only room on the True Path that does anything of that sort, and even giving 8 special status, I think that’s a little far fetched.
I’m less that 100% satified with my analisis of room 8. But I’ll put what I currently have over there.
I’m pretty much on board now. I’m going to write it up in my words and give you full credit. Some additional notes. At both the gate and in rooms 23/19 we are looking South. Half way through at room 4, we are aslo looking South, apperently at the noon-day sun. It DOES help with one puzzle – the 8 unit clock itself. That is the 2nd room you get to on the figure 8. Assuming the big hand starts at A when you enter the Maze and clicks one letter per room it would be pointed at “C” and it would read “42″ units of time clicked off since “AA” and 42 is the correct door. Congrats!!
Taking room 2 into this left/right business:
With the exception of the rooms on the True Path, there are only two rooms in the Maze that have different “correct” doors depending on whether you’re headed in or out. (Rooms 2 and 5. All the other rooms are 1) in the Trap, 2) accessible only after reach the center, or 3) requiring you to return to room 1 before proceeding to the center, so you’re always headed toward room 1 either way.)
Room 2 contains a discussion that differentiates “right path” from “correct path.” I’m not sure what to make of this in terms of my left/right view of the Maze, because what’s special about 2 is that it can be part of a (wrong) path to either 45 or 1; in fact, it connects directly to two rooms on the True Path, one part of the path in and one part of the path out.
So, I don’t know, maybe I’m missing something.
If 1 is on the left side of the True Path, and 23 is on the right side, Rooms 12 and 29 are both on the right side as well, and Room 2 is joined to both of them, and most intuitively represented as being on the right side of the Path as well. (It’s one of five rooms that is part of the Path, but not on the True Path, if you can follow my partly whiteravenical, partly invented terminology.)
So yes, If you’re in room 2, you’re on the right path, but not the most appropriate or correct one.
I was thinking of the path being defined by its direction (i.e. the sinister path being the one to the center, and the right path being the one out), but perhaps it solves some problems if we think of the sinister path as the left SIDE of the entire Path and the right path as the right side.
Ok, I’m afraid this infinity/left-right/eight business is just a way of playing around with number and maps instead of solving riddles. Let’s get back to work.
I think understanding the broader maze can do naught but help solve the individual puzzles. Whatmore, isn’t it part of the fun? To me, the mystery of the Top Hatted man is more intriguing than any room solution, for example.
I loaned my copy out so I can’t reference, but where do the rooms with a distinct left tilt fit into the figure 8 path? There’s that room with the statue, the room with the scales, the room that is tilted, etc…
You’re right, of course, and I think there’s good yet to be mined in this left/right business.
I’m not totally sure what rooms you’re referencing, but as for where rooms fall on the figure eight, it kind of depends which side you start on and whether you curve up or down from the outset. There is certainly a way of drawing thins so that Room 8, the tilted room, is tilted like its placement on the figure eight; but I’m not convinced that really means anything.
I don’t think you are either on the right side of the 8 or the left side of the figure 8 in room 2 or room 5. Lost somewhere in the middle of the figure 8 is where I’d put it.
Well, I don’t mean the far edges of the right or left. I mean, if you split the figure eight down the middle, you’re either on the right side or the left side. Unless you’re in Room 4.
Ah – gotcha. I was thinking the Nothern or Southen paths of the 8. You meant East/West halves.
A word on time:
With some information put together from various rooms, I’m working with a hypothesis that the Maze runs on an eight hour clock. I’m not certain this is useful information to have, but I submit my hypothesis and reasoning for peer review and utilization.
1) The obvious: Room 30
Here, we have a clock with eight letters on it, the letters meant to correspond with numbers. See the (partial, so far) solution to room 30 for the details, but the puzzle that makes use of the clock would have worked equally well with twelve letters; there’s nothing about this page that demanded an eight-hour clock, at least as far as I’ve seen or heard. This suggests to me that, at plausibly, there’s a greater theme here involving an eight-hour clock. Let’s look, for instance, at…
2) Room 22
Room 22 features some sort of circular cushion in the middle, with a pitchfork lying on it, suggestive of a hand on a clock. In the text, a reference to time: “This is not a bad place, really; one could spend quite some time here.” Red herring or not, it is strongly suggested that we should be interpreting this cushion and pitchfork as a timepiece.
Notice, the cushion is an octagon. Or, perhaps that overstates the case, because we can only see three sides of it directly. Rather, the cushion has eight sections, divided by creasing in the fabric, and (at least with the ones we see) separated by tassels, and resting atop a rug that is very apparently an octagon with a side corresponding to each division of the cushion.
Further suggesting that we are meant to deduce a new time system for the Maze is…
3) Room 13
“It takes a great deal of experience, certainly more than they possessed, to understand how time works in the Maze. The clock thought it was six in the evening.”
Not anything here to support my eight-hour clock business, but it does reinforce that time doesn’t work in the Maze like it does elsewhere. (Granted, this could relate to the instance of apparent time-travel as one traverses the Maze, and have nothing to do with the number of hours on the clock.) The clock that thinks it is six (in the evening) has its hands positioned as if to indicate 6:00 on a twelve-hour clock, but it has no numbers on it. The suggestion could be that the clock displays the wrong time, or that it’s being read incorrectly (though in the latter case it would be unfitting to attribute that failing to the clock itself).
In any case, what I’m reading this “certainly more [experience] than they possessed” line to mean is that the understanding of how time works is to be discovered along the True Path. Why? Well, 13 isn’t a trap room, so you could wander freely into every room of the Maze, excepting the trap rooms, and then come to 13, so presumably if it were just a matter of looking for the right clues in the right rooms, they very well could have the experience necessary. But if the very act of traveling the True Path communicates the way that time works in the Maze then, presumably, anyone who drops off that path doesn’t understand how it works. Which is where I’m going with…
2) Rooms 1 and 23 on the True Path
Eight steps separate 1 and 23 on the True Path, both going in and coming out. There’s a nice sense when you separate the paths as room 1 to room 45, going in, and room 23 to room 2, going out. This symmetry is often overlooked because room 1 is included twice on the list of rooms in the True Path, and 45 is naturally thought of as both the end of the trip in and the beginning of the trip out. However, when we separate 1-45 and 23-2, we get two paths, each 8 rooms long, each leading directly into the other, and each landing in room 4 on the fifth step. Though I’m not able to draw it here, the true path is easily drawn as an infinity symbol, with room 4 in the precise center (where the lines cross), room 1 on the far left, room 23 on the far right. I’m painting a lousy visual picture here, but it’s a compelling organization for the rooms that I’m probably not the first to discover but that I haven’t seen drawn before.
Now, I don’t mean to suggest that the book itself compels you to imagine the True Path this way, although the figure-eight/infinity modeling is inherent to the True Path. But I am suggesting that it’s relevant to think of room 1 and room 23 as being on opposite sides of a perpetual loop of rooms.
As everyone has noted, the book begins, in the prologue and room 1, with some mention of the sun, and we see in room 1 the sun pouring in from the left. In room 23, on the opposite end of our journey, we have the sunlight pouring in from the right. This suggests to me that each eight-room trip we take is one half of a full “day” in the Maze, though I’m not sure “day” is the correct unit of time in this instance.
Some weaknesses in this:
-The sun might be setting in 23, but it doesn’t seem to be rising in 1, from the angle of the light. The symmetry I’m reading in is very approximate.
-Only under special conditions would the sun’s symmetrical positioning really correspond to passage of half a day. The movement of the sun is suggestive of the passage of time, maybe, but not, without more information, the quantity of time.
-I’m assuming that we’re facing the same direction in both instances; we might have simply turned around.
-Room 37, near the end of the return trip, prominently features shadows cast from the sun (the text makes a point of saying the room is roofless) that reveal the sun is on the right, not even close to being directly over head. The positioning of the sun does lie between where it does in 23 and where it does in 1, but it certainly doesn’t suggest a smooth progression of the sun through the sky. If you wanted to dig in your heels and make a case for it, you could point out that 37 is the room where you have to see both sides of things, where there’s the NET/TEN thing, and suggest that we should therefore being looking at these shadows backwards (in which case they DO make a good fit), but that seems a fairly pained interpretation.
Some explanatory power in this view:
I don’t pretend to have solved any puzzles by seeing the Maze’s clock this way, but it does help with——
Well, I was just getting to something there, but my daughter wants to play, so I guess I’ll leave that as a cliffhanger, or maybe someone can do better with what I’ve said here if I don’t pollute you with my farfetched guessing.
Hello, I just posted my solution to room 30 over there, so I could start addressing your point number 1 here. I do see a reason why a 12 hour clock would not work here. F=6. And O+U+F = 42. that is one way to get 42. The other way is to picture it like a real clock that has gone around at least 5 times, 8 units each. We then have 5*8+? The ? being where the big hand was, and we can assume it was on B or 2. If you did a 12 hour clock you could not use “F” both ways. If it was 6 for F+O+U=42 then we have at least 5*12 units of time past on the clock = too much. So I think this 8 hour clock is puzzel specific here. My general thought on time in the mzae is that action in all the rooms take place at the same time.
But I agree the hourglass figure 8 shape is a good picture of this set of rooms.
Yeah, I suggested that O+U+F solution on John Bailey’s site about…THIRTEEN YEARS AGO? JESUS, WHERE DID MY LIFE GO?
Anyway, I somehow talked myself out of it in the meantime.
Without investing a moment’s thought in how it would be done, I have no doubt that Manson could have communicated both clues on a twelve-hour clock. I still strongly suspect that an eight-hour clock was attributed to the Maze for some other reason, and then used in the puzzle; not that the nature of the puzzle required him to invent an eight-hour clock.
I think all the other doors are indicated once in some relatively simple way and the correct door is indicated twice but in a more complex way. One way is the F O U. The other way the “time” on the clock. Could he have done it on a 12 hour clock. that may be. But maybe the 8 hour clock is what occurred to him. In any case you said you had more to support the idea.
Yeah, I misinterpreted your response and responded inaccurately.
The two solutions I had in mind here (O+U+F; 6 x ? = the correct door) work readily and obviously on a twelve-hour clock, but your five-sweeps+ solution would not, and there’s essentially no getting around that.
I still have a hard time imagining the puzzle construction happening in such a way that an eight-hour clock was devised to meet his needs, but the limits of my imagination are a poor basis for judging Maze solutions.
But I’ve almost forgotten by this point that that had almost nothing to do with my hypothesis! I suggested the eight-hour clock was unnecessary to the puzzle only to suggest the eight-hour clock came about for another reason; but my main point is just to suggest that the Maze runs on an eight-hour clock.
7 or 9 would not work the way the problem is designed. It would have to be an 8 unit clock. But yes of course he could have designed some other puzzle. And yes. He could have already had an 8 hour clock in mind. But I don’t see it yet.
Anyway, boy, how to put this down quickly before my two-year-old wants to stomp on my torso, and without using my book because when my one-year-old sees it she just wants to throw it on the floor and tap dance on it…
Well, room 1′s reference to, what was it? “This can be a sinister place”? I’ve always taken that to mean “sinister” in the archaic sense of left-handedness
[UPDATE: I started writing that about an hour ago, and didn't actually get the five minutes of peace I needed, but now the kids are in bed and I can use the book directly. It's important to keep this kind of biographical information in mind so you can appreciate the stress I'm working under when you find my theories a little hairbrained.]
Ok, “This can be a sinister place.” That’s room 1.
In room 23, which I’ve worked to suggest should be thought of as being located on the opposite end of the True Path from room 1, we have the scroll indicating “EVERYTHING RIGHT.” I consider this sinister/”everything right” pairing to be another symmetry between the two rooms, which further suggests to me that it’s correct to envision the True Path as an infinity symbol…
Which sort of circles around to the same clue that I just used to support it, “EVERYTHING RIGHT,” with room 23 being on the right side of a symbol that very very loosely can be thought to mean “everything”…
WHAT, not convinced? Yeah, I think just lost myself at that step.
Regardless, we also have the “THE TIME IS” bit on that scroll, which entreats you to try and determine the hour of day, which I’m suggesting has something to do with the position of the sun, which we can tell to be near the horizon based on the shadows cast.
Additionally, we have the paintings on the wall that seem to suggest the passage of time.
And the correct door is door 8, which I’m saying is the key number as far as time goes in the Maze.
Again, I’m not suggesting that any of this has solved any puzzles, nor that I’m solidly convinced of it. Only that it’s a hypothesis that occurred to me based on one thing, and seems to fit with some others.
The sinister / right connection gives me pause. Maybe the map should be laid our left to right there.
On room 37 – on the return trip, you’ve past room 4 “noon” just 2 clicks back. The time is “G”- afternoon. BTW “B” and “C” on the return trip seem to be storm time. 31 and 44 also seem to be “B” and “C” time respectively.
There are several threads that seem to tie together rooms.
1. The Top Hatted Tap Dancer
4. Hats in general (includes Crowns)
5. Things leaning left
6. Fate, Justice, Blindness
9. Musical Instruments, Bells
A whole mess of rooms have suspicious paintings/placards that are coming loose from the wall in the exact same way– they’re unfastened from the top and tilting forward a bit. Perhaps they’re just to make everything more atmospheric, but they seem oddly significant to me.
7 – A mirror with bull horns on top of it.
10 – A ballerina and a tap dancer.
12 – Two dignitaries, holding up fingers. (These are used in the room’s solution.)
20 – A rook/keep being struck by lightning.
21 – A caduceus.
25 – At least two of the room numbers. (Although I’m tempted to dismiss them because they’re just room numbers and shouldn’t hold much additional symbolism, unlike the rest of the “leaning placards”.)
27 – Another room number. Probably securely fastened and not technically part of this list.
28 – Two more portraits of dignitaries holding their fingers up. This is the second deja vu room.
45 – Probably the most prominent example. A sideways letter “N”.
Like I said, drawing them this way is probably just a stylistic choice, but it does catch my attention.
If the falling off placards is a thing to be solved, then I think room 25 is the key. 25 has a placard completely fallen off revealing a crown. Note the painted bald man is looking behind the rightmost placard with horror.
Room 40 looks like it has a 4 on the wall indicating another door and the words say they went through a passageway. This could have been another solution to the puzzle.
This is not so much inter-connectivity as it is similarity/consistency in clues. I’ve noticed there are some references in the loop to unmarked rooms. The statue in Room 27 is pointing to an unmarked door (the right way out even though not marked). Room 3 has reference to 15, again unmarked but the correct way out of the loop. Anyone see any other unmarked door clues?
Room 3 has pots next to the unmarked door, the reverse of STOP. Signifying that the unmarked door was correct, which of course it is.
Room 11: The hand is pointing at an unmarked door.
Room 19: The paintbrush is pointed to an unmarked door.
Room 29: The staves, besides the one in the blind man’s hand who is giving us a clue, are leaning against the unmarked door.
Maybe the point is to let the reader know they have taken a wrong turn?
It is possible there is a card suit connection, matrix, trail, riddle or something.
There are a few rooms that have hearts (15, 27), spades (9, 27), diamonds (25, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44) and clubs (10, 16, 27). The hearts, spades and clubs are solidly present, the diamonds are present but perhaps mostly accidental since a diamond shape is pretty common.
The rooms for most part are not linked to one another, so if we are meant to take them as a whole their is no particular order to the parts.
The diamonds are pretty loose, perhaps there there is a purpose to this, maybe there are no diamonds. Also, I don’t see the clubs. Hearts are prominent and the spades (shovels) are obviously intentional as illustrated by the spade symbol in room 27.