Who is the guide?
Manson has confirmed that the Guide is the Minotaur. There are many clues to his identity littered through out the book, including a trail of clues (perhaps involving trefoils or references to Cerberus), and the “Easter Egg” described below.
Title Page:
The Key-Stone: The key points us to the the key-shaped trap (see the map of The Trap rooms). The fact that the key is carved into a stone is perhaps a visual word riddle for “keystone” indicating that what we find in the trap is important.
The Mason Objects: The spike, compass, hammer and square are often placed together in the symbolism of the Masons, usually these items are placed flanking the Bible. Here the scroll is in the location usually occupied by the Bible, suggesting that what is on the scroll is important.
In many masonic images the Bible is flanked or overlaid by the compass and square. The hammer and spike are also common elements (in the left and center images).
Hidden Letters: The letters in the maze in the map spell out “IN SLY” this uses all the obvious letters in the map except for a “C” (it could also be an “n” or a “u”) which is off to the right separate from the others. The objects surrounding the parchment perhaps signify letters and spell out “devil” or “evil.” So the phrase is “Devil In Sly” or “Evil In Sly.” Alternately the objects leaning against the keystone could spell out “I AM” so the whole phrase reads “I am in sly.” Or the “C” could be taken as “see” so it reads “See In Sly.”
Possible phrasings:
IN SLY
devIL IN SLY
evIL IN SLY
I AM IN SLY
(see) IN SLY
Room 43:
- Images copyright 1985 by Christopher Manson
Ok well if the room 6 thing is THE thing then here are some early thoughts. The word important is very important. Room 37 says that about things couched in ambiguous terms. Connects to 35. Both the left center right right in 35 and the right bear in two clue us that if there is a path of these things follow the right branch. If you put the one cushion on the couch it has 3. If you grab that bit of wood and add it to the thing you have a three thing. And 3s are a big deal here I think.
Just going to throw a few ideas out there that I have been working on in case it sparks anything for anyone.
Here’s the first one. I don’t know how I feel about it — not sure if it could lead anywhere and it’s far from perfect. Anyway:
Chess PIeces
There are a lot of things that look like pawns scattered around, which made me wonder about other chess pieces, which may appear as such in the rooms, or as an answer to a riddle. Here’s what I’ve found so far, by room:
2: black knight (night)
3: white knight (night)
4: black knight (night) and white knight (night)? (ceiling)
5: white castle
6: (square stones as references to squares?)
7: pawn (in lamp base, maybe?)
8: 2 pawns (in candleholder, at top of barber pole)
9: 4 pawns (on bed frame, maybe?)
10: 1 pawn ( on chair — megaphone) — not sure of the square pyramid things would also be pawns
16: 1 pawn, maybe? king or queen, maybe?
17: (columns kind of look like chess pieces)
20: two castles/rooks
21: 1 white pawn (on centre chair)
25: king or queen, maybe?
26: could the shushing guys be bishops (hats)
29: another bishop?
30: again, columns kind of look like chess pieces — maybe all columns kind of look like chess pieces
31: These columns, together with the fancy tops on the whatever-you-call-it on top, look kind of like Queens to me.
33: maybe a pawn (horn) — a crown on one of the columns looks like a Queen or a King
35: square cushions indicating squares on chessboard?
36: rocks on ground indicating squares on chessboard?
41: horns indicate pawns? checkered floor? (although this has already been accounted for)
I think some of your numbers maybe got messed up so I could not quite follow all of them. As far as sparking something – room 20 looks like two rooks with no stretching. 1 black 1 white. Finally white castle is a 1920s burger chain here – but I’m guessing you are Canadian and don’t have those.
Haha. Yes, guilty. (RE being Canadian and White Castle comment.)
Got up,there in 2012. Passed through Toronto on the way to Montreal. Nice city.
Guide Searchers,
I am sticking with the agreement I made with SP, namely, “I will ignore any suggestion of the path unless it contains the location of the observation in a number inner-connected of rooms. This way a person must think it through and list examples.”
I am not saying this because it has been recently mentioned, as of now it has not. Good luck!
White Raven
THANKS AGAIN, ALEX.
That’s fine. Just mentioning stuff anyway in case others see something interesting. Don’t know that we’ve talked about the ball in 23 much. Looks like a ball. I could imagine it’s a small globe or something.
It does seem like a good time for some furious spitballing. I’m having trouble getting any ideas worth mentioning. It’s true that the two beams in 6 have hitherto avoided mention here. (Unless I just can’t find the place where I mentioned that the slab/beam thing in 6 reminded me of the stack of slabs in 33.) The tilted beam with the notice…
I’ve been assuming 35 was the end and 6 was the corollary. It could be the other way around. Or something else completely…
There’s a lot of stuff we may have discussed off site but not on here that we have to be careful not to dismiss. It actually makes things easier, though, to know the important thing wasn’t mentioned here than if we knew it was something we had mentioned. Well, hypothetically. I guess stuff we’ve mentioned is at least an identifiable list, if an absurdly long one.
Room 4. Table. Never mentioned that I recall.
Maybe easel in 5. Table in20
Side note. Statue tilts in 27. Benches for o and u in 30. Shelves in 39. That’s all I got on that run.
Haha, I even made that list of things unused in each room and still overlooked this big obvious thing. Maybe it’s in one of the rooms that simply noted everything was leftover.
I’m stumped. It could have been mentioned on my page and not here and I don’t realize that of course. Or it’s just some huge blind spot or something.
Connecting words at the end of each room. They could code information. But other than a few cases where I think the words are chosen for room related reasons, the don’t seem to have an obvious pattern at this point. But here they are:
1 into
2 marched out to
3 into
4 go to
5 out into
6 came to
7 on to
8 on to
9 left for
10 came to
11 all the way to
12 led us into
13 came to
14 followed them to
15 led us into
16 left for
17 into
18 out in
19 on to
20 entered
21 way to
22 ooon to
23 entrance to
24 .
25 leaving for
26 door to
27 door to
28 us into
29 to
30 we entered
31 way to
32 to enter
33 in
34 on to
35 went into
36 door to
37 departed for
38 on to
39 to
40 to
41 on to
42 way to
43 on to
44 to
45 in
Soooo…the House is made of stone and mortar huh? Did anyone else notice that is a perfect anagram of “ASTRONOMER”? And given all the zodiac and sun and star stuff in Maze the guide is obviously Copernicus. Well, now we all know!
On a more serious note – it’s probably not directly guide related – but I don’t think we have an explanation for that whole sentence.
Leaning stick in 35, leaning violin in 33, leaning sign in 3, leaning spade in 9 (is it used in the riddle or not?), leaning spade and bat in 27 (are they part of the riddle or not?), leaning tower in 20…
All but the tower and the bat are right-leaning.
Instead of backtracking to 20 we could go to 13–leaning bullhorn. Your options get limited then. 18 has a leaning top hat, I GUESS, but it’s left-leaning, and from there you just get stuck in a circle.
Grrrhrrrmmmm.
The umbrella is leaning right up front…but WR has called that a red herring. If the Guide path were marked by leaning objects then I don’t think that would be a red herring. So…this was all wrong.
That’s all right, enough wrong answers and only the right one will be left.
The only way this even seems possible is if W R means that the pattern has never been observed. I have to think somebody observed the large obvious one, and it is just the fact that it is repeated in other forms in other rooms that has not been noted.
It may involve thing that everyone has noticed and talked about, but an aspect of it that we have not. For an example (of something that is not the thing, but just so you SEE what I MEAN), think of the fake outdoor view in 28. Everyone saw the view, it had probably been referenced, etc., but it was a long time before anyone realized that it was fake. (My apologies to those who believe it is not fake.)
Dave G wrote, “I have to think somebody observed the large obvious one, and it is just the fact that it is repeated in other forms in other rooms that has not been noted.”
Vewatkin wrote, “It may involve [some]thing that everyone has noticed and talked about, but an aspect of it that we have not.”
I can see why you both would thinking along this line, it is the logical conclusion, but against all odds the observation has not been named (on this site, or any where else I know of). And yes, I reread the comments on the room in which it is not hidden to be certain. So you may ask if in the non-hidden room is there something about the observation that defies notice. Answer: No, it has just been inexplicably overlooked.
It’s on page 46 maybe ?
Did we ever talk about the wrapping on the head of the thing in 35?
OK – here is my stab at the innocent detail for tonight. I started with capital letters. Mostly uninteresting. Stygian in 24, Underworld in prologue, and perhaps more interesting Riddle in 45. But mostly there is a House/Maze split. The only place it is called both is the prologue. 4 Maze and 1 House. Other than that it is only one or the other – so non-random. Also never mentioned. Also fits with something W R took particular interest in – the Riddle in 45.
“maze” – room 45 four times, room 1 twice and rooms 13, 40, and 17 once each. Probably more interesting are the “Houses” 2 in room 5. 1 id 20 (non-cap). 1 in 32, 1 in 36, and 1 in 43.
Abyssians,
First, I just wanted to confirm that I have read all the comments and the observation that composes the path has yet to be mentioned. So to be clear, it’s not eyes, though eyes may be part of another trail I don’t know about.
Second, certain rooms contain Guide information but are not necessarily part of the path and stand on their own, so not all leftover items are part of the trail.
Lastly, a word of encouragement. Previous attempts have focused on identifying items which appear to be related to the Guide. The trail leads to a room which appears to have nothing to do with the Guide and is unsolvable without solving another related riddle in a different location…then the answer is laid plain. You are all thinking correctly looking for trails which appear to be unrelated to the Guide and based on simple observation. Looks like it’s just a matter of time…
Anyone else think to themselves that the trail ends in 35?
It’s not shading is it? I really don’t want to count pen stokes in shading or do and analysis on their direction or something.
It’s the one room where we’ve got absolutely nothing, vw, so that does make sense… although not sure if it would be possible to try and work backwards based on what WR has said above.
If 35 is indeed the end room–well, either the end room or the room that matches up with the end room in some riddley way, that suggests the significance of the matches and two-piece suit we keep fumbling around with: this room matches up with another room. Room 6 SEEEEEEEEMS like a good candidate for the other either-the-end-or-the-complement room, though I suppose anything could be anywhere.
If you overlay the two pages, the face-looking keystone in 6 aaaaaaaaalmost lines up with the face of the totem in 35. There are some other similarities between them–general detritus, ladder, single exit on the left, stray wood.
Oh, wait, between the two, 35 would have to be the end step, if the last room seemingly has no connection to the Guide, because 6 plainly implicates the Guide.
Of the rooms that lead to 35, 25 and 29 seem like their objects are pretty well used up. (But, see the open door in 25.) 41 still has the tic tac totem and the mushrooms, 33 has a ton of images and the violin.
What if 35 “matches” the “suits” in 27? Another thing going for it – the tunnel is not supposed to be there, meaning in theory 35 and 27 are both one-exit rooms.
We also have a seemingly blind statue, and a totem whose “face” is wrapped in bandages. After all…WR said “to be clear, it’s not eyes.” Which means blindness has to be right!
The leaning stick in #6 looks a lot like the leaning stick in #35. Well, same angle anyway.
Lean lean leaning…
Oh ho, you know what’s left over in 3? The leaning sign behind the stop sign.
Dave G wrote, “It’s not shading is it? I really don’t want to count pen stokes in shading or do and analysis on their direction or something.”
Oh heavens no! The observation is large and plain in one room, partially hidden in other rooms, and cleverly (as in ingeniously, not microscopically) hidden in a few rooms.
515 wrote, “We also have a seemingly blind statue, and a totem whose “face” is wrapped in bandages. After all…WR said “to be clear, it’s not eyes.” Which means blindness has to be right!”
To keep you all from going down this rabbit hole, I am not providing any hints or double meanings in my answers though I occasionally have to phrase things carefully so as to not give away hints, which could be taken as an unintentional hints.
Also, somewhere it was mentioned that my moniker “White Raven” may be a hint. “White Raven” is a childhood nickname completely unrelated to MAZE.
Oh no! Now you’re letting slip clues about your own secret identity! Did you get a heart transplant from a loose-lipped baboon?
There is something large and plain in one room that no one has mentioned??? Really???
Did you ever notice that Room #3 is totally backwards?
Also seems to tell us this is a visual clue, not a text clue.
Vewatkin wrote, “Oh no! Now you’re letting slip clues about your own secret identity! Did you get a heart transplant from a loose-lipped baboon?”
Nah, I’m unable to work right now and this is a nice distraction so I’m more chatty. Since the two friends who used this nickname are both dead I am fairly assured of their silence. Plus I’ve put a curse on everyone who learns my identity so that if they share it they will get crippling back pain. :)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA go to hell
…into the abyss? Already there.
Abyss is a different place. I think in Maze it means going from 4 to 43 via the “ELL” door between the two great “hall”s. But its just a fake, so don’t worry about it….
Gonna take a run at The Observation here….
There seems to be a common thread of “shoot” in many rooms. It is also possible that this is further proof you can read anything into the maze that you want.
I haven’t checked all the rooms, but here’s what I’ve gotten so far:
Chutes and ladders in 41
Bumbershoot in 10, though it is called an umbrella here
Bullseye on the wall in 14
Photo shoot in 25
Movie shoot in 13
Shooting star in 9, the little picture to the right
Chimney chute (implied by fireplace) in 18
“Don’t shoot!” stick man in 3 – I know “hands up, don’t shoot” wasn’t a thing in the 80s, but it’s kind of a universal sign…or Maze may have driven me insane
Also: In 35 there is a suit hanging. The arms and pockets of the suit are conspicuous in that they almost make an H. Suit + H = Shoot.
There are card Suits in 27.
Maze is like growing a topiary. You let ideas grow wild for awhile – then eventually prune unproductive ones. This moment of zen brought to you by…
Problem is – now we are looking for something that is NOT noteworthy. I think my page has SOME explanation (quite a few wrong) for pretty much everything even mildly noteworthy. Something that is present in a number of rooms that no one has commented on ever??? That’s got to be almost background – like shading strokes (don’t think that’s it at the moment) Or “…” or pronouns, etc…
It’s possible, but it’s not clear that we’re looking for an object or symbol that no one has ever noticed–it may be instead that there’s an object plainly visible but an important attribute about it that hasn’t been observed. For instance, it’s hard to imagine that eye in 6 isn’t part of this (well, it’s not THAT hard to imagine, but it doesn’t serve any door solution purpose), and we’ve observed that, but there’s something we’re missing about it, I guess.
Eyes are another thread that would be interesting. My understanding was that there was a common observation in multiple rooms that hadn’t yet been mentioned, that presumably would clue the path of the riddle of the guide. Observation is not necessarily a single object. Given Manson’s love of wordplay, I think it’s reasonable to expect the observation to contain puns and double meanings, etc. Shoot was just a first attempt to get wheels in motion, I’m certainly not presenting it as a solution or anything. I do think 35 is a necessary room to include, and have a hunch that it is the beginning of the trail, mainly because it has only one exit and contains a lot of language in the text suggesting traffic… Signal, direction, right away (right of way), etc.
Honestly, I considered eyes before shoot, but backed off because of the room where all the eyes were central door solutions. I just realized that in that room there is one hidden eye that hasn’t been solved yet: the “yes” door, where yes = aye.
Haha, “yes = aye = eye” has been the source of much consternation regarding Room 34. You can witness my anguish in several MazeCast episodes, including, of course, our recent one on Room 34.
(It’s a lot easier to send people off to see these now: MazeCast dot com.)
“eyes” for me would be too close to that path of “looks” I did, and I think we are avoiding any guide questions until after WR’s path is found, then we can probably ask guide questions.
Room : Leftover objects
(I’ll probably make a lot of mistakes here. Note that I’m only counting WR’s accepted solutions.)
1 : The sun beam. (The sun beam seems a notable omission because it has multiple plausible solutions related to it, but WR has not accepted any of them.) Perhaps the paper under the door to 21, but the paper in general has been accounted for.
2 : The chair. The moon and star sign, technically, but WR’s comments have suggested it has clue relevance.
3 : The blacked-out sign over the door to 33? That’s about it.
4 : Ol’ Sunface and the stars.
5 : The trees, the carpets. (Probably nothing, in other words.)
6 : Everything but the sign to 40. The eye sign, the torn notice, the semi-carved keystone, some sticks and rocks, ladder…
7 : The rug, the horned-frame/mirror, the two-eyed paintings.
8 : Just about every damn thing in the room, seriously, who knows what’s going on here?
9 : Angel, apple, broken spade, mine shaft, dirt; it has been implied that the angel, at least, is part of a door solution.
10 : The volcano, the dancers.
11 : The bell, the wires, the cage.
12 : Whole room seems pretty well accounted for, unless you count the trees and stuff outside.
13 : Pretty much everything is still left over. (Pyramids and balls have been accounted for, the clock maybe, but technically the solution there really only deals with the text.)
14 : The cord, plug, socket.
15 : I can’t think of anything left over, since most of the stuff here ties in at least to the H clue.
16 : 7s have been noted in Orson and the machine. Everything else in the room is up for grabs.
17 : Decorative elements, especially suns/faces, on the doors.
That’s all I have time for at the moment, but I’m sure there’s nothing left in the rest of the rooms.
(Note: sometimes I list things like “shadow” when they seem particularly prominent, but all rooms contain too many minor elements to list completely here, from door shape to floor patterns to shadow to wall panels to whatever. I try to note things that seem plausibly noteworthy.)
18 : The fire, face, logs, dragon, bowling pin, shadows…pretty much everything but the chairs and the musical notation.
19 : The trees, maybe, but WR seemed to consider including them in a suggested solution and decided not to.
20 : The carpet. The cloths.
21 : Bird, wrench, trees. (It has been suggested, however, that the wrench is part of a door solution.)
22 : The light fixture, the “pearl.”
23 : The coat rack with gloves. (The baseball, O scroll, and the starry painting have not been incorporated, but it appears these are parts of other puzzles.)
24 : The eyes?
25 : Seems all accounted for.
26 : The rope
27 : cat, spade, lantern, statue, shadow
28 : see 12
29 : Everything seems pretty well accounted for. The chairs?
30 : the tree
31 : the rakes, leaves, branches
32 : the devil, the statue, the bags, the blocks, the bird–well, everything, everything but Sea Bag OK.
33 : The violin, the pit, boards, pillar of stones…it’s unclear which of the pictures above the doors are considered part of the solution.
34 : the QUICK cane, Mr. Yes, the YES-NO-MAYBE signs, the torn 25 sign
35 : entire room
36 : everything but the machine and Orson
37 : the rope ladder, the open door; the eyes (but WR has expressed uncertainty about them, suggesting they are not part of the Riddle of the Guide)
38 : the carvings, the rocks
39 : More than you’d think. All the T items except the times table, trowel and the tire; most of the winery items besides the barrel inclined toward 12 and a bottle pointing towards 11. It is unclear how much of the rest of the room is included as part of the general Cask of Amontillado solution.
40 : the…stairs?
41 : The tic-tac-totem, the mushrooms, the horns
42 : umbrellas stand, canes and umbrella, coat rack, coat, hat
43 : horn/bell, curtains, devilish face and people
44 : the statues, the bird, the circle
45 : The table, the chair, arguably the nun (but probably not–though that would give us a nice reason to use the awl for the Riddle of the Maze instead)
Alright, well. Of course, if the thing we’re looking for is something sneaky, then this whole list is pointless anyway since I’ve probably overlooked whatever it is we’re looking for.
PFFFFFFFFF
I forgot the SAND in 17. Geez.
Well, the good thing about this here Guide puzzle is that the way WR describes it we don’t really have to know who the Guide is from the get-go anyway; it’s not like room solutions where knowing the right door is about the only way to figure out which door is being clued as the right door. So, we can lave our Guide baggage at the door.
The trail of rooms does not give us letters, so we’re not spelling out a name.
It doesn’t give us a series of clues that independently suggest the Guide’s identity; WR says that upon reaching the end you know who the Guide is. So it’s not like ten rooms with anagrams of Michael Jackson hidden in them.
A rebus is a possibility, though a rebus suggesting only a name seems like it would be fairly short in most cases. Perhaps a rebus of a statement that describes the Guide? E.g. “I am the youngest son of Joe Jackson.”
The path involves leftover objects from the room puzzles. The path also involves a “single observation” in multiple rooms.
WR has said that when we correctly identify the observation he will confirm it, then the “hunt is on.” The bit about confirmation may be changed since Alex complained about too much confirmation (thanks, Alex), but it’s still noteworthy that some kind of hunt will proceed even after the observation is made. This suggests it isn’t something so simple that the observation is immediately obvious everywhere it is applicable.
Leftover objects are a good starting point here, but since we have so many rooms that are so incomplete I don’t think we’re going to get a very useful list yet.
VW, this is a helpful summary. Thank you! I have to admit it was the hope of finally KNOWING who the guide is that got me to start participating on this site when I found it and seriously look at Maze again. It is exciting to know that WR solved it independently, that Manson confirmed his solution, and that WR will confirm if (WHEN!) we get on the right track. Also that so many smart people are willing to work together to figure it out. It is inspiring! Now all we need is a bolt from the blue…
Aria: You seem to have a very pleasant disposition. We need more of that. (And you seem pretty sharp too – but there’s a lot of that going around here). Anyway – here’s the latest “seems to maybe go somewhere but does not quite”. While I may have found something Manson used the eye in 6 for, we still have not found what WR used it for, What about “I”s in the text? There are a larger than average number in room 6. (But having done this sort of thing with the frequency of Greek pronouns in biblical texts – nothing to get excited about by itself there). Still it’s a hint that some may have been added for a specific purpose. It seems workable in one way – “Even I felt oppressed”. Suppose we have ‘ol one-eye there and then the capstone is “even-eye”. He does look oppressed by the weight.
The only other “even eye” in the text is in the prologue. “Even I get lost”. That is an unneeded sentence there – and we’ve never seen the guide get lost. And, well…that’s about it. One might be able to do something with all of the guide’s “I” statements. But nothing jumps out. Then there is a meta-reason to look here. if “I”s were involved in WR’s path to the guide that would explain why he and Manson discussed room 34 in more depth than your typical room. So, with that I’m going to go do something else for the night – and I expect this all to be solved by morning….
Just happy to be here, Dave. :)
Commenting on what V W said, for the record: I hold no current theories that contradict anything Manson has said or that WR has said while representing what Manson said. And the sun is still in the sky.
Actually in general if I were simply shown a better theory that explains the data I’d change opinions on the dime. But, when all one is told is that a conclusion is wrong, it can take time to reformulate something new to replace the old. One does not reject an old theory wholesale in that case rather one looks to see what elements were correct and what elements were in error and moves forward with a new theory once formulated.
The only clue I’ve noticed thus far that does not relate to the minotaur (which are clues I now think we throw out completely) or to the “…” via Cerberus is in the “My crown, my pain, the fire in my eyes”. Now the crown and the fire eyes I believe are but used in Maze to help get us to Raven, but pain? Does not obviously go with either -, so best fit for now, I think, is that it means “pane” and means the mirror which ends up being a big Raven clue too.
Crown works for the Minotaur in the sense of the top of his head–they didn’t notice his horns, which would have been the surest indication of who he was.
Pain, fire in his eyes–those are almost TOO straightforwardly applicable. The Minotaur’s entire life was about imprisonment and bloodshed (both the youths he killed and his own defeat). Not that you have to look at outside sources to understand the Minotaur as a symbol of pain and rage, but you can: Dante’s Inferno places the Minotaur in the Circle of Violence, where he thrashes with uncontrollable anger at the mention of Theseus; in House of Asterion, the Minotaur beats himself bloody simply as a way to occupy his lonesome time, and welcomes death when Theseus comes to deliver him.
But as I say, there’s no need to look at specific fictional sources. Bestial rage (“fire in my eyes”) is a defining characteristic of the Minotaur in classical mythology, and his pain is easy to understand whether he is considered as a living being confined to the labyrinth or as an inhabitant of the Underworld who was violently slain in life.
OK – “pain” fits Minotaur better. (and thus should be rejected on the red herring theory). Crown and fire eyes could fit any number of things of course, but both are used in Raven clues in puzzles, so those were not an issue for me. And if you are using one character to help obscure another, alternating their traits would be natural.
I think you’ll have a better chance of finding the guide path if you pretend you’re looking for the fake path that indicates the Minotaur.
Being a minotaur booster I’m with vw on this one, but I think the pain/pane thing is interesting. I’ve been compiling a list of homophones/words with multiple meanings and it is loooooong. So far it doesn’t seem to amount to much other than a list of homophones/words with multiple meanings, unfortunately.
V W – been there done that – got as far as “rain umbrella”. The evidence for Raven far far greater.
Well, one benefit of the minotaur hypothesis is that it doesn’t involve dismissing contrary evidence as “red herrings” or concocting boatloads of nonsense. Whatever weaknesses the hypothesis has, the comparative strength of the raven hypothesis is not one of them.
The biggest problem that I see is that other figures related to the labyrinth also seem to be suggested. Architect of a maze? That’s Daedalus. Crown, judge, critical by nature? That’s Minos. It seems like poor sportsmanship for Manson to arbitrarily give the minotaur attributes associated with closely related Greek mythological figures just to obscure the right answer–that’s like deliberately misspelling words in your crossword puzzle to make it harder to solve. (I know there are crossword puzzles that do exactly that but they do it in a clever way in aid of a deeper puzzle and that’s clearly not the type of thing I’m talking about.) That is, just making the answer fit worse, as opposed to concealing it better, seems like poor puzzle design.
I’m not sure that’s a very good argument against it being the intended solution, though, and it’s a pretty minor quibble compared to the problems you get from suggesting any other candidate for the guide.
VW: Well, one benefit of the minotaur hypothesis is that it doesn’t involve dismissing contrary evidence as “red herrings”
DG: Every door (or close maybe since we’ve not checked) has a red herring indicator for it – starting with just open inviting doors – that’s the way it works time and time again – one or so obvious simple pointers for the wrong door many well hidden indicators for the right door. The minotaur is the open inviting door.
VW: It seems like poor sportsmanship for Manson to arbitrarily give the minotaur attributes…just to obscure the right answer
DG: I won’t argue about how he should or should not have designed it, since that’s all opinion. I’ll just argue about the evidence for or against what he did in fact do.
There is very clear intentionality in both of those strings of rooms, and in other supporting clues. Show me how the clues lead to a different answer. Or show where the path should have taken a different turn, or something like that, other wise you are just being dogmatic.
VW: it’s a pretty minor quibble compared to the problems you get from suggesting any other candidate for the guide.
DG: Room 15 is a much better false clue room than most. There are a ton of 3s in that room. 3 is not the correct door. There are a handful of minotaur clues in Maze – they have zero to do with the actual identity of the guide Those clues are not the puzzle or part of the puzzle – they are just to get in the way.
Call it a dirty trick or a poor puzzle if you like, but there is very good evidence that that is what he did.
Or the minotaur is the “yes” on the door in 34, or the paper clip on a string in 14, etc, etc…
Yeah, but by “good evidence” you mean the same kind of stuff that gets you Herod or Beethoven or Christopher in every room, which isn’t really evidence at all, since you could find anything you want anywhere you want, as has been repeatedly and amusingly demonstrated.
There’s another hint WR gave us way back when that might be helpful to keep in mind: “no one is going to be shocked by the answer.”
That statement was made at a time when nobody had suggested a Native American trickster god might be the guide. It may be that WR simply doesn’t understand the human emotion of surprise, but it seems more likely the guide’s identity is not someone that everyone but Dave would find surprising.
I think you misinterpreted WR’s comment.
Statistics is about probability not rock hard certainty. Science is a process of learning by observation and reason. And science corrects itself with time. Then you get better answers. Sticking with the same answer in the face of evidence is called dogma.
What I am doing today is not the same thing I was doing then. There is really no reasonable doubt on what room that trail of looks leads to or that it ends up looking at a bird (in spades). Or that the “…” trail ends right on 5 consecutive letters to Raven. Or that the thing in 35 stands on two legs, or that a giant bird topiary in 21 fits the dialog to a tee. Etc…
But rather than citing flaws in the theories you choose to launch personal attacks instead. That might make sense if I were making an argument from authority and claiming something was right simply because I said so – but I’m not – all the evidence is laid out in the open – so if they are as wrong as the other theories you mention, all you have to do is find the error.
I’ll run through a bit of the history – so we have examples of past errors as templates for the search.
Beethoven comes about because “beet” is there and intentional in a musical room and then there are coincidental patterns that happen to connect it to the main answer “the world”. Even if you do statistics right, they will give you the wrong answer some of the time. But that was also before learning how full room puzzles really work. Once I had good examples of what he did elsewhere it became more unlikely that he would have done that there, and finally of course as I said, he pretty much said he did not do a key piece of it – so that was that.
Christopher Manson finds again started with a grain of intentionality. He did put himself in 3. But the misstep there was to try to fill in all the missing letters for Christopher where they were not supposed to be filled in. That taught an incorrect lesson at a point when I was still in the dark as to how room puzzles operated. After he said he put himself (I assume Christopher) there only once I identified where I thought the best cases were and mentally I backed out the other ones as I came to them. That stayed on the website for two years or so, not because I was committed to it during that time, just because I had gone on to do other things and was unwilling to go redo it all. And then it still is an interesting coincidence that Christopher means “Christ barer” and there are some very intentional “bear crown” clues – it’s just that the intention has nothing to do with Christopher. Thus until I found out what the bare crown stuff was really for, moving to a theory that St. Christopher might be involved in a puzzle somehow what the best theory available for something that was clearly not accidental.
Getting Herod where Pharisee and Jew still seem evident and herring was probably intended is hardly very wide of the mark. There was a misstep – but that’s not a big one – and the order of the songs in the musical – I mean wow, that was fairly remarkably apt.
In any case – as you are fond of pointing out – Maze is a nearly unsolvable puzzle – we disagree on the extent to which that is true – but – to solve it completely without misstep would be super human. I made errors. The pattern in the errors mostly is that I correctly identified something as intentional and non-accidental but then make a misstep along the way to get to the wrong answer or overextended a pattern.
Thus – this suggests that finding an error in the paths would be the best way to refuse the theory. But citing my past accuracy? Again that only works if theories live of die based on authority and scientific theories don’t depend on authority. That kind of argument will how weight with people that don’t want to sift through the evidence themselves of course. But even then, really, I think my track record of successes far outweighs the errors, and stands up pretty well compared to others who are attempting this. But again, that is beside the point. attacking reputations is not how theories are refuted.
Oh – and WR’s comments I would take to mean that the identity of the guide would not be surprising because WR adopted the guide’s identity as his moniker when he set up this site. And put up images like this one: www dot intotheabyss dot net slash /white-raven
And after having W R as our guide to this site for many years, we would not then be surprised to learn that the actual guide was also Raven.
Also remember when W R and I first talked he did not yet have this site or know the identity of the guide, he took up the moniker only after he knew the guide’s identity.
And, I did not come upon the theory based on W R’s moniker but rather by stumbling on some clues in room 14 and following them where they led me.
That alone would be a remarkable coincidence.
I know this will sound unsatisfying and probably uncreative, but the more I think about it and read everyone’s comments, the more it seems that Manson is going for some kind of trinity of Labyrinth in the guide. As vewatkin just wrote above, there are equal yet conflicting hints to Minos, Daedalus, and Minotaur. But think about the Cerberus line – a 3-headed monster personifying the labyrinth myth itself. The crown, pain, fire line with it includes one attribute of each: crown is Minos, pain is Daedalus (guy lived a pretty shitty life), fire is Minotaur.
Perhaps the guide is switching perspective at certain times, depending on where (or maybe when) the group is in the Maze.
I, really, can see only 3 basic refuting arguments.
1) The chain is not intended and is random
2) I did the chain wrong
3) the answer in interpreted wrong, random, or whatever.
For #2 – have at it! That is the puzzle, putting the chain together in the right order is what you are supposed to solve.
For #1 – the purpose of the long chain from a puzzle designers point of view is to avoid the problem of it possibly being random. Clues are placed to identify things like “look” or “…” but once found their repeated efficacy removes any serious arguments about their being random. In the errors of mine above, my issue was not the initial identification of non-randomness, but what came after, And then these trails have many more successful applications than those things. And they are not subject to manipulation as to what things constitute elements of the clue. I’m not gathering up a bunch of stuff to put together. It is one thing a look or a “…” that is consistently effective. I don’t think #1 can be seriously argued.
For #3. The looks clearly end with the bird. You could be more quibbly about what specific bird, but bare crowns, the old man, and then the well set-up note puzzle do give a petty clear answer. And the odds of coming across exactly the answer I’m looking for at the end of the chain of “…”? The odds of those specific 5 letters being there in a row is in the millions. The only place for manipulation is in the sequence of the chain – which as I said is the puzzle. And while the “…” chain could be shuffled a bit – I think it will end at the same place and the “look” chain is quite a bit harder to argue with where the individual clues lead.
Trying to convince you that one of your Maze theories is wrong is a losing proposition. Our only real option on that front is to wait for Manson or WR to tell you it’s wrong, then for you to interpret their clear statements as ambiguous or mysterious and continue pushing the same theory, then for Manson or WR to give an even clearer statement, then for some time to pass, then for you to start asserting the theory again, then for the sun to blow up.
515, I like your 3-headed theory, but I feel like at some point somewhere I read that WR stated that the guide was one person/character only and not a composite. Maybe one of the regulars can confirm that if I am right?
Yeah, it’s becoming unwieldy to go through those old comments, but WR confirmed it’s a single individual:
“Manson confirmed my solution as to the identity of the Guide and clues that lead to this conclusion. I will say four things: 1. The Guide is a single individual. 2. The correct answer has been mentioned on this page. 3. The proof of the solution is in the book, it is a VERY difficult and elaborate puzzle and the puzzle itself has not yet been mentioned here or elsewhere online. 4. The solution to this puzzle leaves no doubt as to its correctness.”
Aria: Yeah – 3 headed thing has its attractiveness, I agree, but as V W said it is ruled. out.
I’d say with maybe 90% certainty I have found WR’s starting clue. I’m going to work the lead myself for a while first however…but not forever. If I get stuck I’ll shout for help.
Whoa, 90%, I think that’s the least confident you’ve ever been about anything.
I believe WR’s clue that is found in many rooms and has not yet been commented on anywhere (a strong clue that, actually, given how much of Maze has been covered and recovered) is this “…”. There are some meta-reasons supporting it in Manson’s prior communication I’m sort of remembering and in their appearance on WR’s site, but let’s look at the book.
Room 29 Says “Look, look, this is very important…” The note is important, the staff is important, the “look, look” is important but so is the “…”.
Room 9 has “… that’s the trick”
The prologue says “… I am the lesson”.
Now let’s consider room 35 which seems to be in large part about these 3 dots. Silences and black spaces fits. The cord that hits 3 points fits. The “matching” fits. “left, center, right,” fits. And the extra “right” is a clue that what follows the dots is the important part.
I tried individual letters and words, with little luck, but phrases of various short lengths build a chain of rooms. My assumption which is challenge-able is that I am supposed to make most of the rooms with dots into a long chain. Some links are obvious, others less so, and I may have an error or two, or more, but here we go, submitted to the committee.
We start in 45, best I can figure with “Every group is the same”. This points to the prologue/1 where we have “Like all others”. The prologue has “The sun was very hot” (a clue to Raven’s theft of the sun, in my view). Unsure about the “sometimes suddenly” (maybe a weak reference to the fact that we go quickly to 24? I’m also not sure we need to use every “…” if there are multiple per room).
Room One has …into. 2 was my first guess here, but I think it is 14 with “…they were so easily led” which goes to 24. 24 has “watch your step” clearly 23. The “Even my billowing laughter” one, I don’t know if we use.
Room 23 “which room was that?” The animal this seems like 42. The “door on my RIGHT” might skip of right to 2. But going first to 42. “It was only a bit of taxidermy” takes us to 2.
Room 2 “Well, that might be something else” leads to another “well” phrase. In 22 we have “well, everyone is a critic”. 22 also has “we have our roles to play”. This goes to 36. And 36 has “unwilling to interrupt” This goes to 11 where the guide does not interrupt them. 11 has “This was not true” which leads to 5 and the incorrect count of doors. From 5 we have “one in four” “why not be generous” “enough for all”. This takes us to look for a door in room four with a “1” in it. 16 does not lead to a “…” room so we go to 15. 15 has him regretting and act of charity and a bit about knowing himself. In 6 he says something he immediately regrets and talks of himself, so we go there.
In room 6 we have “They did not like the look of the place” which is a different important starting trail in my view. But also we went down the only way open to us. This brings us to 35, the only other one-way room, but where the “…” is only implied by the clues not given. Where to go? Look back at the last clue – down! Down that ladder that we think goes up but really goes down to 41. In 41 we have “I knew, naturally” – which connects to the door not opening “naturally” in 10. So now we need another door that won’t open – that’s 38 I think, but no “…” there. So we walk next door to 40? Maybe.
40 talks of “wind” and we find a gust of wind in 31. The wind makes the branches clatter, and I think sends us to another place we see wind 12/28. It might have been a better fit to go to 28 directly but I wanted to work 31 in there. 28 has …”How could I answer that”. We need to parse this one to ask How could “I” (the letter) answer “…” and one way is with the 3 vowels later in the alphabet “Y,O,U”. So we go to 30. 30 talks of one door better than the plain ones. Off to 25. 25 says somewhere where the guide feels at home. And since he expresses a desire to get outdoors in 12 let’s go outdoors to 21.
In 21 “we know the name” we are getting close. We don’t know what that bird is but the guests DO know what kind it is in 32, where they ask “what is a bird like that doing here”. So to 32 we go, and after the … we have “In a very” and “n a ver” unscrambles to Raven.
That was totally obvious all along right?
Actually, I bet my path can be improved, but some links look strong, so let’s go with that for now.
That covers every room with “…” except 27 – and there I think the clue is different. “…I” signals that this is the center of the eye of Raven on the map.
It’s an interesting idea, looking at ellipses. Room 45 says that what the Maze teaches can be learned in every room, and the ellipses are present in every room. There is the one right after “They should call me ‘Cerberus,’” a line that doesn’t make a lot of apparent sense but refers to a three-headed creature at least.
Also, I continue to feel that absences/blanks/missing things are important (I think you also pointed this out, vewatkin) and ellipses are one way to indicate that something has been excised.
I think this has a good chance of putting up some room 35 points at a minimum and hopefully get us rolling on the guide path….we shall see…
O,M,G,. Aria just pointed out that Cerberus might mean “spotted”. So “3-headed” and “spot” huh? I’d say that’s a “…” We should call “…” Cerberus – it is the lesson.
Yes — that Cerberus line in the prologue has always bugged me because it really does not make sense. Which seems to indicate there is something else going on there, whether it is connected with the ellipses or not.
Duh for me! I didn’t even connect “spotted” with ellipses! Huh…
Well, no, but it is a great theory. Manson left open whether or not there are other multi-room puzzles. The “…” could be the first clue of another hitherto unknown puzzle.
lol really? OK – so there is ANOTHER path. But let’s try to fix up that one still…
Soooo…at least IMO, we now have 4 multi room puzzles to the the same answers (well 3 to the same answer plus 1 to WR’s answer). We have whatever WR’s path is. The “…” path, which probably needs some patches, but I think is close. The trail of “looks”. And the comments of the thoughtful one that lead to the Raven poem recited around what forms the eye of Raven on the big map. 4 paths…at this point it starts to become a serious consideration that there are more than 4…IMO.
None of the above, apparently, require what I call room level solutions, where we use all the items in the room to come to one “big answer” for the room – but I think there are at least a couple of multi-room puzzles that do need those answers – the wall on 40, the puzzle of the falling signs, and the puzzle of the leaning signs. Room 40 and the leaning signs I feel are probably incomplete, but the falling signs I think I got.
I think answers to those puzzles would be needed to get to whatever sort of final message the book has, or at least that’s my long term goal – to find that, assuming it exists.
Shorter term – I want to fix up the “…” path and…still find WR’s path….hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Path corrections. When I first made the map the natural fall out was a number of paths leading to 2, before moving on. I forced them into a single line, but I see that was wrong. Aria’s spot of the spotted Pinta is why “all roads lead to 2″ before moving on. It is a connection between the two paths, the “look” path and the “…” path. If you were following the “…” path and found the “spot spot spot” thing in 2 then it could give you a clue towards the “look” path. Another clue for that “look path” I’ve not added to my section on my page is the room solution to 30. You end up with “I door”. And that is cute in that the door to 34 does lead to the “I” room. But now I see it as also a clue to see room 32 as a giant door eye.
So here is the path update: 45 to 1 to 2 “…into”
42 to 2 “…it was only a bit of taxidermy”.
14 to 24 to 23 to 2 “…which room was that (the animal)” “…I suggested we take the door on my right”
Then 40 goes to 28 “…water, wind”
41 goes two places it goes to 10 via “naturally” but also to 40 via “I knew of course” connecting to the “…do you know what signs”. 10 could lead on to 38 via the door that won’t open but that is a dead end, so I think we are supposed to double back in 10. This is just like what the guests seem to do in 10 by first going to 14 before moving on to 41 – and that forms part of the room solution here, IMO, so it is not a surprise that the double back here would get an additional hint.
The “(change)…sometime suddenly” in the prologue points to the workmen in 27 I think.
So one path starts at 45, which makes sense. And starting with the bear in 42 to give an extra path to the bear in 2 seems fine. But starting with 14 to 24 seems a bit odd, unless it is help with the thoughful one’s clues in some way – or something else. Finally there is another small spur I don’t know what to do with but fits best if we go 31 to 12 “…gust of wind” and then 12 to 30 which is where 28 goes. And that may just be a way to deal with the double room thing.
So here’s the whole map as I have it.
Starter clues in 29, 9, 35 and prologue. Prologue to 27 and an “i/eye” clue. Then 42 to 2. 45 to 1 to 2. 14 to 24 to 23 to 2, then 2 – 22 – 36 – 11 – 5 – 15 – 6 – 35 – 41 – 10 – 41 – 40 – 28 – 30 (and 31 – 12 – 30) then 30 – 25 – 21 – 32.
That’s a lot of info, I know. But I’ll put it in neater order at some point.
Some questions: Staring in 14? What is up with that exactly?
Also in 24 “…even my billowing laughter couldn’t fill this space”. anyone have any idea how to interpret that? The “space” now refers to the “…” I imagine, but I don’t get the joke or whatever yet.
Starting in 31 is interesting because the dead leaves at their feet relate to the dead bear foot in 42 and the floor boards in to relate to the sound of old boards in 31. But I recall that might all have been part of something else going on – so it may not need to be part of this chain. Or – the multiple connections might be just to make this path more difficult to pin down.
Oh and Thanks WR for the “great theory” comment. :)
Assuming the guide is not the obvious Minotaur and is oh let’s just say Raven, what are we to do with those Minotaur clues? Maybe that is the point of the red herring indicators at the gate. I mean why place a red herring like the minotaur and then tell us it is a red herring? Maybe that gives us justification for throwing out all minotaur clues. So for example in room 7 – the horns simply don’t do anything – they are a false minotaur clue and nothing else. Statements about the guide that do NOT relate to the minotaur then on that theory should relate to the actual guide. The first one is “architect” – the minotaur is not, as V W notes – but Raven is the creator of the World in myth and MAZE=HOUSE=WORLD as we know. V W’s point #2 – the sun – Raven stole the sun from the “old man” for humanity in one of his more famous tales. #3 regarding noticing who he is – Raven can appear in many forms including human. Our guide does judge/measure us.Native American Raven was known for teaching lessons (see prolouge) although not exactly for judgement/measuring us – but I did note there is a widely used standardized placement test named Raven. Crown – applies to Raven. “fire eyes” – is in the poem and room 18′s part of the poem. But someone might have to help me with “pain”. Is this a minotaur thing?
Another one. Wheee! Room 2:
22 fresco: men adore = minotaur
12 fresco: men at war = minotaur (reinforced by “marched” in text)
Can’t figure out 29, but maybe that’s because it’s the best door to take, and is therefore not connected with the minotaur?
One part of me thinks these are getting silly, but the other part thinks there are too many for it to be a coincidence.
I know what you mean, Dave G, but I guess for me, I really want it to be the Minotaur because he fits all the explicit statements the guide gives us about himself in the text — even down to “low-born” if you take that to be a reference to the lowing of a cow (his true father’s mother).
We know the guide is unreliable, but I always felt that his thoughts were more or less reliable, while the statements he says out loud to his guests are not.
I guess for me, the guide being the Minotaur is more satisfying than other solutions I have seen because it fits the aesthetic of the book, the theme, the many references to ancient Greece, the internal musings of the guide… This was not the prize puzzle, and in fact was not explicitly stated as a puzzle to solve at all, so is it necessarily a problem that he is the most obvious choice?
Maybe what we’re supposed to figure out from the red herring/minnow door is that the clues pointing to the Minotaur’s name/identity are NOT helpful to us in determining the shortest path and the riddle of the maze — in that sense the Minotaur puzzles actually ARE red herrings, even though they truly DO point to the identity of the guide (determining which was not the stated goal of Maze).
Sorry for blathering. I guess if WR doesn’t comment, we’ll know I’m not on the right track. :) But I’ve convinced myself, anyway.
The part about parents being low born and next to a king – I have no doubt at all that the intention of that is to signal the minotaur. The same goes for the mirror with the horns, and the bit in 6 about the deceptions played on his father. (His mother got inside a wicker cow to mate with the bull), Even if they can in some obscure way relate to the real guide, the reason they are phased as they are is no doubt to say “minotaur”. (At least for me, and I suspect there is a fair amount of agreement there).
But then I think partly open doors and that slip of paper under door 21 in room one are supposed to look tempting too. In many rooms the first most blindingly obvious clue is for the worst door. The best door is signaled by multiple well hidden clues.
But OK – a red herring red herring can not be ruled out. I think I even suggested that at one point in room 22 – although mostly I thought it referred to the one at the gate.
Not as guesses per se – but as things people may want to investigate – suns, and bulbs, and light sources seems like an idea. Also, although this would not be WR’s trail, since Hidden mystery noted them – “At last” when it appears in the text might be worth looking in to. It does contain “Atlas” and I do thin Manson was aware of it and used in because for part of the wall on 40 I think he gives us “room 2″ + “t” to say “at last”.
Argh, sorry to keep posting, but I keep finding stuff as I go deeper into this.
So “House of Asterion” is a story about the Minotaur living in a huge crazy house. It was written by Jorge Luis Borges. A quote from Borges, who became blind(!!) later in life, is: “When I think of what I’ve lost I ask — ‘Who know themselves better than the blind?’ — for every thought becomes a tool.”
When Borges wrote “House of Asterion,” he was already at least partly blind. So is our helpful guy in room 29 Borges? He is referred to several times as a “person” — why not as a man? Because Manson is signalling that he represents a real person? (That’s a bit far-fetched, I know.) And then there’s the stuff about the guide not knowing himself in 15, which (in addition to the oracle stuff) connects to this Borges quote and to the story, in which we don’t know the narrator is the minotaur until the end.
I posted on here about House of Asterion not too long ago, and my reaction is largely the same: It seems to tie in the minotaur very well to what we know of the Guide. I’m by no means confident, but if I were guessing the Guide’s identity I would bed on the minotaur as well. Some of the problems with the minotaur seem to be:
1) The Guide refers to himself as the architect of the Maze; the minotaur was not. (Addressed by House of Asterion, in which the minotaur muses that he created the House, maybe even the entire world.)
2) The Guide seems to have some kind of preoccupation/odd relationship with the sun, which the minotaur didn’t really. (Addressed by House of Asterion, in which the minotaur holds the sun in special regard. Potentially addressed by Cretan mythological traditions that associate bulls with the sun.)
3) The guests don’t notice who the Guide is. (The prologue explicitly states the guests are too preoccupied to notice who he is, so this may not be a strike at all…but come on. Too preoccupied to notice that the guy talking to you has a bull’s head? On the other hand, the suggestion that they WOULD notice who he is if they weren’t preoccupied suggests he should be identifiable on sight, which suggests an appearance out of the ordinary.)
4) In Room 22 the Guide refers to himself as passing judgment on the guests. Not a clear tie to the minotaur here, and seems more in line with other Underworldy mythological figures, especially King Minos, who is an important judge in Dante’s Inferno. (Potentially addressed by the Minotaur’s own role in Dante’s Inferno, although it’s not clear to me exactly what the Minotaur’s deal is there, besides hanging out in the circle of violence and going crazy.)
Other than those things, though, he seems to be the ideal fit, in all the ways Aria highlighted. That the minotaur is one of the most immediately obvious suggestions for the Guide (Daedalus may take priority as the most obvious; Minos is in the same ball park) doesn’t really detract from that.
I am sorry I missed that comment of yours about House of Asterion earlier, vewatkin! It’s crazy, right? I agree with everything you’re saying. I would just add that the thing about passing judgement is also addressed by the Borges story — in the story Asterion/Minotaur talks about how he delivers the nine men who come to his house from evil.
Stuff like “looking over my shoulder” kinda takes things like the sun out of the running for me, but not really because I’m not sure how literal or metaphorical the clues are, or if some are literal and others aren’t.
The Room 29 blind guy isn’t a terrible match for Borges. He’s not so distinctive that you could put a lot of weight behind that, and his glasses cover a lot of his face, but it’s no less plausible a match than Manson in Room 19 (though perhaps less implied by the circumstances).
I may be making a mountain out of mole hill with the sun stuff. What do we really have connecting the Guide with the sun?
PROLOGUE – Guide notes the sun is very hot. Doesn’t seem to have much to do with the Guide, but statement stands out like a sore thumb, and seems to connect to the next room–
ROOM 1 – The sun glares at the Guide. However, it’s really not clear whether this is supposed to mean something in regard to the Guide or something in regard to the room. Suggestions have been made for what the sun light means in here, and this may be doing nothing more than indicating that. ON THEEEE OTHER HAND if light is generally good (I’m less convinced of this the more I think about it, but who knows, maybe) then the Sun and the Guide seem to be natural enemies, leading and misleading the guests respectively.
ROOM 4 – The Guide advises the group to ignore the “foolish face” on the sun. Since the Guide seems concerned with misleading the group in two regards (1. where to go 2. who he is), and the sun doesn’t apparently relate the door solutions, it seems that the Guide is trying to obscure information relating to his identity. (But the sun-face is similar to several sun-faced coins of antiquity, and may relate to fact that the group should choose “heads” first when evaluating which of the two indicated doors to take.)
ROOM 6 – In a room we assume has some Guide information for us, we have a feeble light emitted from (presumably) the sun, and the much anticipated rain.
ROOM 24 – It’s dark and bad, etc.
ROOMS 19 and 23 or whatever – yeah there’s some sun stuff
I’m not sure any of that is strong evidence that the Guide himself is associated with the sun, as opposed to the Maze itself having a special relationship with the sun/light/rain/dark.
Both Sun man in 4 and in 19 point us to 11. Dunno.
Room 17: This one is my favourite but it is totally out there. So I have always been obsessed with trying to figure out what ‘”Amphorae,” I pronounced’ refers to. It seems too obvious of a reference to saying the word out loud not to be a real thing. So what if it is “M ‘fore eye”? Then if you go to Room 6, bringing that M with you, figuratively speaking, you get
M + eye + note torn = minotaur
OK that’s it for now. I feel like there may be stuff related to the Minotaur’s other name being Asterion, meaning “starry.” Any thoughts on that?
Even if this is all smoke and mirrors it’s fun — thanks for indulging me. :)
Some more room references.
Room 20 — two possibilities. If the picture of the tower is The Tower from the major arcana of the Tarot, then it could be a “major tower.” Then perhaps the one on the chair is a “minor tower.” (minor + tower = minotaur)
OR if you think of the tower on the chair being a miniature model, then you have mini + tower = minotaur.
(Maybe somehow the “extra” hints that one of the towers is extra as well as referring to the extra S?)
Some more minotaur things I came up with last night. I know anagramming is kind of a rabbit hole, but anagramming “an umbrella” (instead of rain umbrella) gives you “am near bull,” which could be the minotaur — nearly a bull. Reinforced by the “minnow door” being replaced with the umbrella on the prologue page. Maybe the rooms with umbrellas don’t have other puzzles leading to “minotaur” but the rest of the rooms do? So the umbrella is a stand-in and “minotaur” appears in every room. Leading to that speech by the guide saying “As far as you are concerned what the Maze teaches can be learned in every room.”
“am near bull” is at least as good as what I did after noting “bull ma_” in umbrella. But I do think the real point here is to signal the red herring nature of the Minotaur. Because, well, he’s the most obvious first choice for a guide of the Maze. And, seriously, I am inclined to think minnow-door is done on purpose too – but for the same reason.
On a different note – I think the sun is also intended as a serious false guide contender. If one follows my trail of looks one easily could stop at the sun in 19. Also in 17, if one were to find that puzzle but did not know how to fill in the blank you could get “For I am sun ray”. Then there is that big ‘ol sun in 4. The sun is at the gate. You could do Man-son = author, and sun-man = guide. You could easily spend a long time down that rabbit hole, I think.