Identity of the “Guide”

Who is the guide?

Manson has confirmed that the Guide is the Minotaur. There are many clues to his identity littered through out the book, including a trail of clues (perhaps involving trefoils or references to Cerberus), and the “Easter Egg” described below.

Title Page:

Title-Page-IN-SLY-2
The Key-Stone: The key points us to the the key-shaped trap (see the map of The Trap rooms). The fact that the key is carved into a stone is perhaps a visual word riddle for “keystone” indicating that what we find in the trap is important.

The Mason Objects: The spike, compass, hammer and square are often placed together in the symbolism of the Masons, usually these items are placed flanking the Bible. Here the scroll is in the location usually occupied by the Bible, suggesting that what is on the scroll is important.

Masonic-Images

In many masonic images the Bible is flanked or overlaid by the compass and square. The hammer and spike are also common elements (in the left and center images).

Hidden Letters: The letters in the maze in the map spell out “IN SLY” this uses all the obvious letters in the map except for a “C” (it could also be an “n” or a “u”) which is off to the right separate from the others. The objects surrounding the parchment perhaps signify letters and spell out “devil” or “evil.” So the phrase is “Devil In Sly” or “Evil In Sly.” Alternately the objects leaning against the keystone could spell out “I AM” so the whole phrase reads “I am in sly.” Or the “C” could be taken as “see” so it reads “See In Sly.”

Possible phrasings:
IN SLY
devIL IN SLY
evIL IN SLY
I AM IN SLY
(see) IN SLY

Room 43:

1-Sly-Face
2-Sly-Face

  - Images copyright 1985 by Christopher Manson

679 thoughts on “Identity of the “Guide”

  1. Any way to turn one of those happy faces into Pasiphae? It’s maddeningly close to a spoonerism, and then with the rising sun images you could get “sun/son of Pasiphae.”

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  2. We are talking on the Hangout about Dante’s Inferno being the key to interpreting the Guide Puzzle. It fits in a lot of pretty striking ways. Vewatkin has posted quotes on 40 and 38 that seem to match those rooms really well — they describe Dante and Virgil’s descent into the seventh circle of Hell after passing the beast that guards it: the Minotaur. The Minotaur is biting himself (could explain “my pain” from Prologue; there’s fire in the seventh circle, which could explain “fire in my eyes”; his crown would be his horns as people have already speculated). They madden him with taunts about his own defeat to get by.

    The thing that’s compelling is that the seventh circle (violence) is itself made up of THREE CIRCLES. So there’s the trefoil/trinity/three-ey thing. The pitchfork could represent Hell, or perhaps Poseidon, who made the bull that fathered the Minotaur. Vewatkin pointed out that the bird talon in 14 (on the path) could represent harpies, who are found in the seventh circle.

    The stuff in 43 specifically that signals the seventh circle of Hell, and therefore its guard, the Minotaur, is the number 43 itself (4 + 3 = 7), as well as the 7 visible rungs on the ladder, which nicely symbolize a descent 7 levels deep.

    Vewatkin pointed out that the sly devil could symbolize Hell in general. The two people flanking him (with walking sticks) could be Virgil and Dante himself.

    There’s the obvious reference to Dante’s Inferno and Virgil in the Prologue (“some poet who will lead them through the symbols and spaces of this Underworld”).

    There’s the tree by the trefoil barrels in the Poe room: POE-TREE (as others have seen) — the Inferno is an epic poem.

    And of course for the Minotaur there are the many many clues and references that have already been noted all over this site.

    Is there more? Is it all a coincidence? It’s starting to feel pretty good…….

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  3. So says Sara (she’s not in a position to post this at the moment, and I’m too lazy to paraphrase):

    Gabriel Rossetti, in his own commentary,[23][24] compares the Minotaur with all three sins of violence within the seventh circle: “The Minotaur, who is situated at the rim of the tripartite circle, fed, according to the poem was biting himself (violence against oneself) and was conceived in the ‘false cow’ (violence against nature, daughter of God).”

    well, it’s a three-ey thing connected with the Minotaur, at least
    and at least the Inferno is pretty clearly referenced in the Prologue
    along with Cerberus
    so that’s something else
    7th circle of hell
    room 43, 4+3

    7 rungs visible on ladder
    but surely we need something about the room that says “Inferno”

    [The devil up top may be an ok inferno suggester]

    Virgil and Dante are the travellers on either side

    Dante’s hell had three divisions overall
    maybe that’s the three-ey thing

    22 is a pretty good “limbo”

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  4. One thing I’m finding really frustrating is that there seems to be a pretty clear trefoily thing in 3 (the pans) — and also the word pantry (PAN-TRI; TRI-PAN?) but I can’t really get it to join up with the path. I think MIT10 (hi MIT10!) ran into this before, too… any ideas?

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    • It’s interesting that this is the backwards room as well, considering that 43 has its own bit of backwardsy stuff going on. MAN, in 43 backwards? Does that help?

      Well, its backwards words aren’t mirror-imaged; the letters are just in reverse. So maybe not worth toooooooooooooooo much thought. Also, if we found a backwards guide clue in there we’d probably go ahead and turn it around whether we had a reason to or not.

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  5. It’s been pointed out on the Mazecast (by vewatkin I think) that both the easel and the castle picture on the door in 5 are trinity things and both lead to that final circuit of three rooms in the trap.

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  6. SP wrote, “…I never said WR was lying, I just don’t know if the way he’s provided information in the best way possible without giving it all away.”

    SP is absolutely correct. I can guarantee you that I have NOT provided information in the best way possible. Frankly by my own estimation I have really fouled this up and as a result something that should have been fun has caused irritation. My only excuse is that I am continuing to have serious health problems and I have been distracted. It is a poor excuse but there it is.

    Here are things I believe I have done wrong thus far….

    1. People who have been paying attention should realize that Manson does not confirm anything really specifically. Manson has confirmed this solution like he confirms every solution, generally. I assumed that everyone understood this. So if you don’t like part of the trail or the way I describe it you are right to criticize me, not Manson. I may have made many mistakes, he didn’t say, so I don’t know, and I am sorry for not making this more clear.

    2. While I have said that it is not necessary to follow the order in which I found the items on a couple of occasions I have not emphasized this point enough. It is theoretically possible to find the solution without the title page or the trail but that would be quite a feat, almost accidental. The trail was helpful because without it Aria may not have noticed the significance or presence of the word SLY and it helps in another way as well, but strictly speaking it is not necessary, just very helpful. I have suggested following the order in which I found the clues, but who am I to say this is the best order? I should have left it more open ended even if that meant the riddle was more difficult to solve.

    3. I mishandled the symbol trail, I should have confirmed Vewatkins “clover” even though the symbol isn’t a clover. I was afraid this would give the wrong impression. I should just have said in the beginning, “Manson hasn’t confirmed the details of the trail but in my opinion this is part of the trail and it is a trinity-symbol called a trefoil and not a clover,” or I could have just said, “The symbol has been noted but called the wrong thing.” Either would have been preferable.

    4. I also have done a poor job in emphasizing that MAZE is almost entirely interpretive in nature, this is what make MAZE so difficult, sorting out solutions from subjective junk. If MAZE was entirely made of static puzzles like “SEA BAG OK” and “NOSE C APE” the book would have been mostly solved by 1990. Almost every solution in MAZE has the ability to be improved upon, this is what make MAZE great, there are real solutions and yet it is the puzzle that never ends. This is why the solution meters are going away this next September. Any solution on this site, except for the few specific anagram-type stuff like “you bear it upon your shoulders” is up for interpretation. Don’t like what I have confirmed? No problem, even if Manson has confirmed the solution it doesn’t mean I have the details right or that I am thinking about it in the best way.

    In regards to me being in contact with Manson: Yes I am and every interview/reference is authentic.

    In regards to him confirming the solution of this puzzle: Yes he has.

    But given the crappy manner in which I have handled all this I understand some confusion on these points.

    White Raven

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    • I want everybody to give White Raven a hug RIGHT THIS MINUTE.

      I don’t like people being harder on themselves than I am on them. I’m not sure that this qualifies, but it’s hard enough.

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    • I can definitely forgive you for not being active on the site for health reasons, I would never harp on anyone for something out of their control. However, your absenteeism is unrelated to my concerns. If I had a choice between frequent but poor communication vs. infrequent but accurate communication, I would always choose the latter hands down.

      Despite my constant naysaying, I am actually quite focused on getting these other rubble rousers to move forward with what we have.

      “In regards to me being in contact with Manson: Yes I am and every interview/reference is authentic. In regards to him confirming the solution of this puzzle: Yes he has.”

      This is irrelevant at this point. Save the chance that Manson answers my letter, there is no way of finding out from the horse’s mouth. Sorry dude, part of what makes me so successful at my job is paranoid and distrust (I guess that same quality makes me a crappy puzzle solving mate, sorry Aria and VW for being a stubborn human being)

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    • SP,

      How does being paranoid and distrustful make you especially good at web development and part time DJing?

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  7. I don’t know where exactly the Guide riddle ends up, but is seeing the n/u/c in the title page maze blueprint as a C, as in C–>SEE, helpful? “See ‘sly’,” etc. I’m not sure how to put the elements together to make both “in” and “see” meaningful, though I’m not sure that “in” is doing much work at the moment either.

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  8. Didn’t Manson say that he didn’t intend for people to map out the Maze? If this is the case, then he never intended the trap to be key-shaped or percieved as such. And who says the trap has to be mapped out to resemble a key anyway? It can be mapped out to resemble lots of things if you want. And the broken key in 38 does not look like the mapped out trap “key”.

    I hate to say this but: VW, I agree with everyting you say, think and feel regarding the riddle of the guide (no disrespect intended for WR). I only think you erred on the side of moderation ;)

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    • Hi Kon-Tiki, last week I wrote and mailed a letter to Manson (the Synod had the address somehow) asking if he intended for a guide riddle/path, because frankly I don’t believe anything WR says.

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    • Whoa, hey now everybody. Oh, never mind, who am I to tell anyone about civility? I’ll save some hypocrite points for a later date.

      I think there is ample reason to believe WR is being truthful about his contacts with Manson, but I guess there’s room to disagree. I just want to make clear that what I was saying on the show was that the devil would be such an astonishingly bad solution for the guide puzzle that it would be easier to imagine that WR was lying about his verification than that Manson actually intended that solution. I do not think it’s generally likely that WR is lying, just that it would be more likely than certain far-fetched conlusions. And, in part, I would just feel better about imagining WR lied than believing that solution, regardless of the truth.

      At some point, we may have to acknowledge that our beef really is with the implausible puzzles and not with the implausible solutions. I don’t think that’s necessarily a knock against the book or Manson; being unsolvable has been key to the book’s longstanding appeal. It’s a subject worthy of more space than I can allow it here at the moment, but the aesthetic of an unsolvable but approachable mystery is what makes Maze such a compelling work.

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    • Kon-Tiki isn’t in the chat nor do I have his email, I’m just filling him in on the only place I can.

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    • VW, i was refering to how the solution seems very “Gentile”-esque. and how our reservations are being beaten down. and how “intuitive” puzzle just means subjective and hazy. And how we are suffering the “long defeat” in terms of hoping for a really good solution or guide puzzle. That being said, I have no doubt of White Raven’s sincerity and integrity. Even though SP’s my boy, i’m not sure i can condone either what he said or the way he said it, but i admire his determination and frankness.
      Perhaps the bell in room 43 is tolling for us. A sort of death knell of our illusions.

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    • I just want to clarify my point of view to anyone who’s shocked or offended. I am used to giving and receiving some level of transparency to earn trust. So simply put, I don’t feel like there is a level of transparency entitling my trust, which is understandable considering the nature of this site and the puzzles themselves. But that doesn’t mean I have to buy everything that’s said. So that being said, I never said WR was lying, I just don’t know if the way he’s provided information in the best way possible without giving it all away. At the end of the day we will probably never get the nod from Manson himself. Pelt me with rotten vegetables if it makes you feel better, I guess?

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    • Sorry, KT, I fly off so many handles that I wasn’t sure exactly what I was being agreed with about.

      Important note here: SP isn’t calling WR a liar. He can have doubts about WR’s claims without assuming that they’re false, and that seems completely reasonable and, I hope, inoffensive. It seems a fair remark that he has no idea whether WR is telling the truth or not.

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  9. You know, the sly devil actually looks a lot like naughty old Pan. And he is flanked by guys with staves — they could be shepherds and he is the Greek god of shepherds and flocks…

    Only thing that occurs to me just now to support this (other than all the music references) is the reference to a “short rest” in 10. A NAP?

    Wait, also, from good old Wikipedia: “The ancient Greeks also considered Pan to be the god of theatrical criticism.” (Theatrical backdrop, text about criticism in 22.) I feel like someone said this before, somewhere…

    There are the PANs in a trefoil shape in 3.

    “We are all animals, at least in part.”

    He sure doesn’t seem to fit all the explicit clues though… hm.

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    • How would you fill in the Notice in 6, for example? I guess you could have “the great god Pan” or something.

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    • You’d HOPE not, just because that renders that clue essentially meaningless, but it wouldn’t be a straight-up contradiction or anything.

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  10. Mazecastians,

    The guide puzzle doesn’t announce itself as the guide puzzle. When I found the trail I didn’t know if I was on to something or not. I followed the trail to rooms 43 & 38, found nothing, and set it aside.

    A few months later while looking at the title page I noticed the masonic imagery, the word “evil” and realized there was actually a puzzle in here. Then I figured out that the Trap was shaped like a key which brought me back to the title page and the key-stone. When I found IN SLY I realized the path and the title page were both pointing to the same place Room 43.

    So…
    The key-stone pointed to the trap rooms
    The trail led to 43 and 38
    And IN SLY pointed to 43

    But I didn’t know that this was about the identity of the guide, I had no idea what I was working on until the end, nothing about the title page, Room 43 or the trail that says this is about the guide (unless it turns out that Aria is correct about “I am in sly”).

    The last bit of the puzzle isn’t difficult IF you keep in mind elements of the trail and the title page while looking at Room 38. If, however, you let everything go that got you to this room and just stare at Room 38 it is a lot more difficult.

    White Raven

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    • Yeah, that’s the trouble with all of my lamenting–we’re not there yet. So I keep saying, “What is this? It doesn’t mean anything, and it doesn’t even help! Oh, except maybe it does, at the last step…”

      Something I don’t think I said on the Cast, though remarked in the hangout, is that having found all this and having Manson confirm it certainly seems to give you reason to have confidence in the other solutions you’ve found in Maze that I’ve repeatedly scoffed and despaired at. I said early on that there must be something similar and nearly unique about the way you and Manson think, and you denied it, but…JEEZ, MAN…this stuff doesn’t look like ANYTHING. You watched the episode, so you had to hear me complain about every aspect of the trefoil/trinity/three-ey/three-ish thing path, you know what I mean there–but it doesn’t look that way to you. It makes SENSE. You can see Manson’s intent in that. YOU can see Manson’s intent in that. I look at this stuff, and even being told exactly what I’m looking for, and being told what it means, and being told that Manson confirmed it, I still have trouble believing it.

      I don’t think I’m making that sound like the compliment I want it to be, especially since I always talk about puzzles as if they can be ranked by how sensible they are, such that if they don’t make sense, or if they make poor sense, then they are bad puzzles. I’m not sure I repent of that entirely, but I will say that what’s going on here is less about whether these puzzles are good or bad or easy or hard, but just about being off to the side in some sense. In terms of making any significant progress in Maze, my primary failing may be my unwillingness to accept the legitimacy of these puzzles; but I think it’s more likely a pure inability to see them in the same way that you do. And despite any amount of evidence that Manson’s puzzles do not conform to what I would consider to be reasonable standards of solvability, I keep insisting on adherence to those standards in accepting solutions.

      “Well, buddy, do you want the answers or not?”

      Boy, ain’t that the question?

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  11. Hey all, the new Mazecast is online:
    youtube. com/watch?v=PZMmSGdxjew

    Morale is low among some of the players here, but not me. If Manson intended for the devil to be the guide, then I’m cool with that, but that’s a big if. As I mentioned in the episode, finding the guide or any reference to that as is apocrypha, and I’m assuming the last piece of the puzzle is finding some kind of question similar to the Riddle of the Maze, with an answer couched in ambiguous terms. If we are finally closing in on everything, I’m not sure what the “guide path” or trefoils were all about.

    Although I’m wearing my Bulls jersey in support of Aria’s dream, clearly she is distraught that it’s the only taurine element in the place.

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  12. “Sly look”…
    Someone explain to me the weird placement of the sly devil’s right (our left) eye. What is it looking at??

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    • If “SLY” is the key, and the text refers to a “sly look” then we follow where the devil is looking. The problem is it seems to be looking at a foot. Not helpful.

      Maybe it’s supposed to connect to PEEK… (peek = look)… is the sign doing double duty somehow?

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  13. We’re on the Mazecast now and there’s some dissatisfaction about ‘I AM”, but I’m supporting “DEVIL IN SLY” with “devil” spelled out of the tools and curling map. The devil is found in the “sly” room, 43.

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    • Beelzebibble,

      I’ve added “devil in sly” and the variant “evil in sly” as possible phrasings of the solution.

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  14. Abyssians,

    Only the last bit of The Guide Path remains, follow all the clues and find proof of the Guide’s identity. The final room is 43 but various elements of the trefoil path are helpful. Good luck!

    White Raven

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    • I mean, pitchforks, tarot devils, “sly devil”….no, say it ain’t so! The devil doesn’t have parents! It can’t be the devil!

      Seriously, it can’t, can it?

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    • Whoa ho! I step away for a moment and look what you do. Awesome work Aria way to take The Raven down a notch! (I hate you WR but it is a complement.)

      Here’s why I think the guide isn’t The Devil. The Devil is capitalized. All the letters are capital except the (d) so the guide could be a devil but not The Devil. So I am siding with Beelz here but saying a bit more. I think the phrase is “devil in sly” but not The Devil just a devil, meaning an evil person.

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    • MIT10,

      Sorry for the delay in your posts, you changed your email so you had to be approved again. I changed the time of your posts so that they appear on top.

      I should point out that the “e” is also lowercase. So weather it is “devil in sly” or “evil in sly” it is lowercase either way.

      White Raven

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  15. If you turn 43 upside down and kind of squint, you can see the head and horns of a bull in the sly face…

    Does sly being written backwards hint that you are supposed to somehow turn the face too?

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  16. The trouble with the title page is that there are so many letters you can find and so many different ways to read them.

    How about: “I AM IN…”

    I (chisel)
    A(compass with chisel/line of map) M(upside-down with compass, map lines, shadow)
    IN (map lines, upper left) …

    [SLY]

    then “U (you) GO…”
    U(upside down in map)
    G (upside down in right-hand corner of map) O (face of mallet)

    Then mallet points to key symbol, indicating trap…

    The little spiral beside “Y” with the compass point hitting it seems to maybe be something… just a target?

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    • Also, mallet is two-faced/double-faced, don’t know if there is something in that…

      Maybe you add the mallet face to SLY to get SLY FACE… not really necessary, but…

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    • Aria,

      Congratulations! You finished off the title page! I had it as “IN SLY” but it is possible that there is something to ” I am in sly” but the “M” is a hard sell. You are on a roll!

      White Raven

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    • In terms of an indication that this riddle directs us to the Guide’s identity, I guess the Masons’ tools and maze plan/map are symbolic of the maze architect, and the guide refers to himself as its architect in the prologue and on the back cover (elsewhere too, I think, too lazy to look right now)…

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  17. Not sure whether to post this on the Title Page or here.

    Anyway, on the title page, I’m currently seeing

    MY (M in compass arm and shadow, upside down, Y in maze map)
    N (in maze map) and (aim from compass needle hitting a target) = NAME
    IS (both letters close together on maze map)

    “My name is…”

    That’s as far as I’ve gotten. Could be something? Yes? No? Maybe?

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  18. Exciting! I’ve been lurking on the abyss for a while but with this new progress I have some ideas about the guide I wanted to share:

    The title page seems like the most likely location for the riddle we need to solve because it seems like everything on it has to do with the guide in some way. We have:

    1) The hammer and what looks like some kind of chisel which are construction tools.
    2) The compass and ruler for measuring and planning.
    3) The maze, which you could interpret as a map (something only the guide would have).
    4) The keystone with a key on it (and the highlight where room 38 would be), which could relate to the end of the trail being the handle of the trap, and the stone with the broken key on it in room 38. Also the key is unbroken, which could relate to the idea that the guide is the one with the keys.

    I’ve noticed a few other things that suggest room 38 might be “the room”, in addition to the connection between the keystone on the title page and the broken key in 38. First, according to White Raven’s comments, the critical thing we learn from the path is that it leads us to the three rooms that form the handle of the key, and 38 is the only one that literally has a picture of a broken key.

    Now, I don’t know very much about stone carving, but the title page has a hammer and what looks like some kind of chisel, and they seem like the kind of tools one might use for making the stone carvings in 38. Additionally, 38 is a 5 star room, but none of the accepted solutions mention the stone carvings at all. I’ve always thought there was something mysterious about them, and I like the idea that maybe they have something to do with the guide.

    Another thing I noticed that points to room 38 is you can form a perfect trefoil with the digits 3 and 8 by attaching the three to one of the circles of the 8. The simple font of the 38 sign in room 40 works especially well for this. There isn’t a single other room number this can be done with.

    One final thought I had (that I’m pretty sure someone has said before) relates to the guide’s comment about the guests not knowing how to phrase a meaningful question in room 43. I wonder if what we need to do is form some question using clues in the 3 rooms, and then answer it using the riddle somewhere in the front pages.

    (Also I want to thank the Mazecast folks for keeping me interested in Maze the past year. You guys are awesome!)

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    • etc,

      Yeah, the MazeCast crew is an enthusiastic bunch, I always enjoy their podcasts. My favorite so far is the haunted Room 24 episode, that was surreal!

      Welcome to the Abyss!

      White Raven

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    • thanks etc!

      very interesting about the hammer and chizel! its as if we are invited to carve out the face of the guide and his two minions on either side.

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    • 38 does seem like the first among equals in a lot of ways…

      I’m inclined to suspect the prologue is the place to find the puzzle, for a fairly mundane reason. That is, at some point, part of the puzzle here has to say that this is about the Guide. Even if the title page contained a coded message that said “MINO go to 38″ and then 38 contained a similarly coded “TAUR,” there would be nothing saying that has anything to do with the Guide.

      The title page, 38 and 43 simply don’t seem to raise the issue of the Guide’s identity. In 22, the Guide talks about himself, but not in a way that puts his identity in question. Only in the Prologue (well, and the back of the book) is the Guide’s identity explicitly raised as an issue.

      It’s possible, of course, that whatever puzzle we haven’t found yet includes both the encoded answer and the encoded question. It seems more likely to me that, with the few options available to us, the one that already satisfies one of the necessary preconditions of the riddle is the one that is in fact the location that contains the riddle.

      [You might say, "Oh, come on, if it really had a clue as blatant as that Minotaur thing you mentioned, surely we would accept that as the Guide's identity." I don't think so, except perhaps in desperation. If finding a name somewhere in the Maze were enough to assume we had found the Guide, then I think Atlas wants to have a word with you. To know that this riddle names the Guide, and isn't just part of some other puzzle, it needs to be connected to the Guide in some way.]

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    • Regarding the unfinished carving: It was mentioned on the show, though perhaps not here, that there is some superficial resemblance here between the carving and the Devil in traditional Tarot decks. The carving lacks enough detail for this to be completely convincing, and the triangle doesn’t help anything.

      It’s hard to NOT start seeing the devil everywhere, though, with the Guide trail leading to the land of pitchforks and devil faces. The book does open with Inferno references, and Dante’s Lucifer did have three faces…

      But oh, man, that just fits the explicit clues so poorly. Please, no, not that.

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  19. Building on vewatkin’s comment, in the title page you get devil from the tools and sly from the map.

    If you look at the sly devil and his door in 38, you can find all the letters in Minotaur. With a little effort.

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    • Argh. 43!

      Will put my Minotaur where my mouth is when I don’t have to type on a phone…

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    • All right, here it is. You can all stop holding your breath now. ;)

      My argument for looking at this door is found on the title page: SLY in maze map thing and DEVIL in tools: mallet/curl of parchment/compass/spike/square.

      I agree, vw, it WOULD be very nice to find something guide related here — like “I am in” or something. There is a pretty clear “G” and “U” upside down over in the top right corner of the maze, but I’m so far not seeing an IDE.

      Another problem is that very clear “Z” or “N” over on the left, which is unaccounted for.

      Nevertheless, in the interests of laying it all out there, here is what I see:

      MINOTAUR in “sly devil” door in room 43
      M is found in horns and weird background shape to face, and forearms of side figures
      I in staff on left
      N in leg and staff on right
      O in strangely featureless face on left
      T in keystone and crosspiece over door… these are, oddly, all the same piece, a fact disguised by the sly devil’s beard
      A in overall shape of door (or in left leg and foot)
      U upside down in shape of door opening
      R in shape of curtain on left

      I recognize that this is reverse engineering. However, I WILL say that the figures in that door are pretty weird in what seems like a pretty intentional way, and it doesn’t seem like hiding a trefoil was Manson’s goal here, or at least, it wasn’t his only goal.

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    • I’ve decided to confirm a partial solution…

      Aria,

      Congratulations on finding “SLY” and thus confirming that the room is 38! There is a small but very important bit of this riddle remaining.

      White Raven

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    • AHA! All that squint-eyed staring at the title page has (partly) paid off. (It’s room 43, though, right? That was my mistake in my original post…)

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    • Sly devil, slide evil, that’s pretty good, sp!

      I guess we need to keep looking at the title page for the rest of the riddle…

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    • OK, so wait. IS 38 the final room? We have SLY in the title page maze map, and “sly look” in the text in 43, and the sly devil face on that page is looking at the opening that leads to 38.

      Therefore… guide room is 38?

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    • Aria,

      Oops, yes, “sly” indicates 43, not 38. I just assumed you had it right in the original post but I see you corrected yourself in a later post. My mistake for not checking the number.

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  20. Mazecastians,

    Loved the last Maze Cast! Thought I should answer a few questions that were raised:

    > I never said that it doesn’t matter what the final room is, it does, what I said was…

    “The location of the final room has been narrowed down to the handle side of the “key” namely 22, 38 and 43. At this point you may try to discover which room of the three is being pointed to but it isn’t really necessary. Just keep these rooms in mind…”

    I will be more clear. One of the three rooms is THE room, however, if you keep the content of these three rooms in mind you will be able to solve the riddle in the location and as soon as you solve it you will know which room is the final room. More clear?

    > I agree with all of you regarding room 14, not my favorite part of the path, maybe it is not even part of the path, Manson didn’t confirm specific path parts just the overall solution. It seems necessary for something to be in room 14. I added Beelzebibble’s flower petal circles to the summary. Also I added Aria’s wires spelling out “go,” I added it to the summary.

    > Seven Sisters and Carl appear on my end to be two different people, but apparently you can spoof IP addresses so who knows? Either of you want to go on Maze Cast and prove your identify? You are in good company, others who have been accused of being doppelgangers are Spark of Life, MIT10, SP, vewatkin, Kon-Tiki, Dr. Blimpenstein, Owen Hammer, Beelzibibble, Anchorperson Smith, and others I am forgetting. Personally I think everyone is everyone and MAZE makes us paranoid.

    > The trinity symbolism leads to the final room and is somewhat helpful regarding the final riddle but, as Aria said, is not a direct indicator of who the guide is.

    > Manson has left open that there may be more puzzles like the riddle of the guide. I think SP is probably right that the moons and suns have a multi-room significance beyond just light and dark, but I have no idea what that would be. I would not at all be surprised to find out that there were more puzzles to solve of increasing difficulty.

    > Most of the riddles in MAZE are to some degree debatable (my favorite riddles are of this interpretive type) but despite the difficulty of the guide puzzle the solution to the guide puzzle is not debatable it just answers the question plainly.

    Great Maze Cast!

    White Raven

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    • Who was my doppleganger? SParks of Life? Or I was his/hers?

      The only people I am really weary of are new cats who seem to have very concise answers!

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    • SP,

      It was suggested a few months ago that you and Kon-Tiki were the same person, the only evidence for this was the repeated statement that Kon-Tiki was “your boy” or something like that. Also long ago someone else said we were doing the book wrong because you were Christopher Manson giving us hints. You’re not, are you? :)

      Actually people who drop in with one or two answers are the norm, you die hards are the unusual people. The site averages something like 300 monthly readers and we have had probably 100 different people post on the site, most of these people write just one or two posts sometimes months apart. If I approved all the misguided first time posts we would probably have another 100 but I am trying to keep people off the site who don’t understand the basic idea of MAZE since it would junk up the discussion pointlessly.

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    • The KGB would use the same trick against the Americans in the Cold War. They would allow the Americans to let their paranoia and rumours get the better of them in cases where they thought they were being spied on, and the Americans would end up spending gobs of money on surveillance equipment and spies, against something that didn’t exist in most cases, it was mostly baseless gossip and paranoia. The American consulate in Russia during the Cold War was filled with fake bugs all around the building causing the Americans to eventually shut down because they couldn’t tell the difference between real and fake bugs in the concrete.

      Kon-Tiki is my boy, but I am not him, nor would I indulge in an argument with myself about whether a clue was legit. That would be a serious case of schizophrenia and I have no history of mental illness in my mixed strong-gene family. Nor am I Christopher Manson, although sometimes I wish I were Manson for a split second just to know what was intended so I could Donald Trump you all.

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    • Just answers the question plainly, eh? Sounds like it would be helpful to KNOW HOW TO PHRASE A MEANINGFUL QUESTION.

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    • Come on Alex, I’m the philosopher and your the butterfly. Or is it the other way around…

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  21. If the handle of the “key” is the important thing, do keys in the book help us? Keys appear in these places:
    title page (actually a key-shaped hole)
    room 29 (above door 2)
    room 33 (above unmarked door)
    room 38 (one of the possibilities for “the” room — key is broken at point that represents room 38 itself as has already been noted)

    The key “hole” on the title page has a little highlight where room 38 would be on the map of the trap (as someone has already noted somewhere).

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  22. On Mazecast last night we were talking about how it seems like there should be a trefoil trail leading into 22 for symmetry. My vote is on the elephant’s foot umbrella stand — it’s a three-in-one symbol in two ways: the three toes of the elephant’s foot, and the three items in the stand.

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    • Aria and the trailblazers,

      There is a trail to 22 but the elephant stand is between the doors 25 and 37 and every trefoil/trinity indicator points or in next to the door that leads to the next room in the trail:

      Room 10 the light from the door to 14 is falling on it. Room 14 the target and claw foot flank the door to 43. Room 26 has the trident pointing to the door to 38. Room 39 the barrels are between the doors to 4 and 11 but the SWAY sign and the tree (wood) sign point to 11. Room 11 the hand on the sign which indicates 40 is pointing at the trefoil. Room 6 the trefoil is just in the middle and the only choice is 40.

      On the handle end of the trap-key rooms this doesn’t apply. The trefoil/trinity items are all in the center at the top of the rooms.

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    • Vewatkin,

      I’ve added the trio of bushes in trefoil arrangement with triangle bases in the door to 22.

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  23. WR, any guidelines for approaching this next phase of the riddle? Will you respond to progress or are you going to wait until someone solves the whole shebang to confirm?

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    • Aria,

      The riddle has several parts but like many riddles in MAZE only one part is essential and the other parts reinforce it. If someone gets part of the riddle but not the main part, I will confirm it but most likely I won’t need to do this since the reinforcing bits are actually harder solve than the main puzzle once you know the room it relates to.

      The only guideline I can think of is that it would be good to get it in the next 12.5 months. :)

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