Room 13

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…room number 13.

They weren’t really comfortable here and I knew why.

“No, no,” they said. “We’re not all superstitious.”

“Only some of you, then?”

They were worried it might be Friday. Well it’s true that it was closer to the end of the week than they realized. It takes a great deal of experience, certainly more than they possessed, to understand how time works in the Maze. The clock thought it was six in the evening.

Quickly moving on we came to…

 - Images and text copyright 1985 by Christopher Manson
used with permission. [Purchase MAZE from Amazon]

 

Room Type:  LOOP     Doors:  18  25  27

Solution Summary: [COLLECTION CURATED BY WHITE Raven. SEE COMMENTS FOR ADDITIONAL SOLUTION PROPOSALS.]

● The progression of time on the sign on the left helps to draw attention to the importance of periods of time, such as the hour and day, and frames the solution listing these increments. The middle paragraph of the text reads, “They were worried it might be Friday. Well it’s true that is was closer to the end of the week than they realized.” Only Saturday is closer to the end of the week as Sunday is the first day of the week. [Note: a universal assumption in 1985 America.] Saturday = 7. The text continues, “It takes a great deal of experience, certainly more than they possessed, to understand how time works in the Maze. The clock thought it was six in the evening.” Six in the evening = 18 military time. Of the increments of time listed on the left the only ones we know are Saturday and 6 PM. 7+18=25 the number of the correct door.  [Independent Credit: David Gentile | White Raven] [Note: This solution is incomplete]

● In the illustration are pyramid shapes with four balls on the bottom and one on top. In the text, the two lines of dialogue read,  ”No, no,” they said. “We’re not all superstitious.” “Only some of you, then?” The phrase “No, no…” is a reference to the two incorrect doors, the rest of the dialogue is to assist in interpreting the pyramids to find the correct door…you are looking for part of a whole. The one ball on top and four below is meant to suggest 25% or.25, the number of the correct door. [Credit: Kon-Tiki]

● The folding supports for directors chair make two Xs (though only one is clearly visible) the megaphone is a V shape. XXV = 25. [Independent Credit: Aria | White Raven]

● The sunlight streaming down on the sundial illuminates two of the hour segments on the far side of the noon divider and five on the near side. 2 & 5 = 25 The object being a sundial reinforces that conclusion that we look for sunlight. [Credit: Aria]

● The cord for the lamp makes a long stretched out 2. The bracket for the light makes a “V” (5) roman numeral. 2 & 5 = 25. [The "V" could alternately be found in the lamp legs.] [Credit: White Raven]

● The director’s chair, megaphone, lamp, and sundial together suggest a sequence of events: 1. The director uses the megaphone to call out “Lights! Action!” or the more common “Lights! Camera! Action!” [Independent Credit: SP | Kon-Tiki | White Raven] 2. The light is turned on. 3. The gnomen (fin) of the sundial casts a shadow which looks like an arrow pointing at door 25. [Independent Credit: Aria | White Raven] The lines of the sundial outline the shape of the shadow-arrow. [Credit: SP] The word “action” suggests we take action and follow the arrow. [Independent Credit: SP | White Raven] The director’s chair reinforces this solution by suggesting that the riddle provides “direction” (the arrow). [Credit: Dave Gentile] The sunlight from above which casts a clear shadow suggests that the solution is shadow related [Credit: Kon-Tiki], as well as he fact that the object which cast the arrow-shadow is a sundial (which functions via shadow) [Independent Credit: Aria | White Raven]. The shadow of the cord and tripod of the lamp may also produce an arrow. [Credit: SP]

View related images >

 

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195 thoughts on “Room 13

  1. The center:
    all is known but not all together,
    like dominoes waiting to fall in a row.

    The circumference:
    it’s true what I said that the math is all simple
    but the solution here needs a mathematical symbol.

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    • Here’s a fairly ugly attempt, and I’m pretty sure most of it has been said before:

      DAY in the list is #7, corresponding to the seventh day
      HOUR in the list is #8, so you express 6:00 as 18:00 because it includes an 8.

      “some of you” in the text indicates SUM of YOU
      And the letters Y, O, and U are in the list on the wall in “DAY” and “HOUR,” in the correct order, suggesting you add those two items together.

      The letters Y and U do appear elsewhere in the list but we don’t know the values for those increments of time, so we don’t worry about them.

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    • Well, if time is the SAND that flows through the hourglass, and since there’s a missing “second” from the table of time, and since the second is represented by the symbol “s,” that leaves you with “AND” which is often used instead of “plus.” (E.g. “One and one is two. Six and two is eight.”)

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  2. Director’s Chair tells us we need a “direction: Narrative: “No, no” + missing “N” from Millennium = NORTH
    The Lamp type is a clue as it is a pole lamp = POLE
    The Sundial Face has Arcs around the edges marked with tics = ARCTIC
    The Megaphone, Sundial, and Lamp shade openings are all demonstratively round = CIRCLE

    Their collective representation would be:
    NORTH POLE, ARCTIC CIRCLE where there is no time.

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  3. Note: The solution I have been talking about that involves the director’s chair, sundial and lamp is not that all three add up to 25. All the elements have been mentioned (and appropriate credit noted) but as of yet no one has put it all together.

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  4. Didn’t someone (sp maybe?) say that the third sundial line down from the centre, when traced, makes a perfect arrow (pointing at 25) with the sundial gnomon? It may just be a natural consequence of showing the sundial in that orientation but it is a very nice arrow.

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    • Also it’s the line that is the most dotted-looking if that makes sense — connect the dots — hm — maybe weak and we have already used the sundial lines.

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    • well prior to this week i liked the hidden arrow, but i much prefer your XXV and the lines in the sun dial.

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  5. These all can be subjective, so I thought I’d just put in my votes and leave it at that. The XXV in the chair seems right. Aria’s 2and5 on the dial seems right. I think the lamp cord makes a better 7 than a 2 now. I think the legs don’t make anything on purpose. I think the metal on top is more 7 than v. I think the dial/shadow is a big 2D “8″. And then the 1 for it? I think it is the long edge of the center piece or the center line. You would not guess it because of perspective, but if you take it apart in 2D – I think the 1 and the 8 are about the same size. But since a 1 is just a straight line, it is hard to be certain. So, that’s my vote anyway.

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    • Most controversial MazeCast too, I think. Bad luck indeed! Unless you like controversy and, well, let’s be honest, we all do.

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  6. Dave G wrote early today but it got buried below, “…there also is another use for the “V”=5. Look at the cord for the lamp, and then one of the legs. It you took a black marker and drew it – that’s a 2. Then add any “V”=5 and you have 2,5=25.”

    Congratulations Dave G! You got the last grouping!

    http://www.intotheabyss.net/room-13-images/

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    • Interesting – I thought you were not liking the “2 V” and got the “7 , 18″ and thought that is what you were confirming. lol. My thought for the 2 is that the leg of the tripod is part of the 2, and my v was down at the bottom of the stand – but does not matter.

      I’m still liking that big 8 right in the middle of the room now though. And now that we have that nice picture – how about this – The big black doorway to 18 makes a “1″ the sundial and shadow make an 8. And – there are 7 total area on it. So that could be an 18+7 group.

      Dunno. Well, any way you group them you get 25 I suppose.

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    • SP, so you are suggesting three groups are 20 25 27? Or are you going for 20 25 2? No one is complaining about the 20 or the 2. You realize the correct door is 25 right?

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    • Nope. There are 3 “groupings” according to the others here, that suggest 25 (check the Room 13 images).

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    • Looks like the solution no one likes is all mine! Yes! Wahahaha! I’ll take the title of Cluemaster General now.

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    • Technically doesn’t this mean Raven already has 45 of these crowns? Greedy bastard!

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  7. OK I think I can complete Aria’s solution.

    It’s 6 in the evening. Or the morning. Because he explicitly mentions six (whether it be AM or PM), this will be my marker for the purpose of this solve.

    Days have 24 hours. This room is all about time, so considering the time is important.

    6/24 = 0.25. This ties into Kon-Tiki’s one ball over 4-pyramid, which is also 0.25

    Boom.

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    • I mentioned this months ago. Didn’t you guys research what was already offered as solutions before doing the mazecast?

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    • Kon-Tiki, not all the good solutions are easy to find buried among the rubbish. Can you ever forgive us for such a grave transgression?

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    • Kon-Tiki,

      I presented your 25% solution along with other possible 25 percents in the room. It was researched, you were credited.

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    • NO!!! :p and in addition, you guys attributed the lights camera action to the movie above the doors in room 25 to Dave!! That was me!!

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    • VW, i was refering to 6 oclock being 1/4 of a day. By the way i like the 1/4 of the cone suggestion.

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    • Well you’re not alone, although I’m not a stickler for who did what, a bunch of my solutions are credited to (or shared with) Gentile, when he really just tacked on his interpretation of my work. I don’t recall anyone, you or otherwise, mentioning the 24 hour thing specifically, but discoveries seem to be repeatedly forgotten and rediscovered every 3 months.

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    • Oddly enough, i suggested it on October “13″th, which wasn’t a friday, and much earlier in the week than expected.

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    • ALRIGHT ALRIGHT LISTEN

      Now first of all, I think credit is stupid and nobody should care about it. If the stuff we’re mentioning is legitimate then the person who came up with the solution is Christopher Manson, not us. Sometimes the revelation of a solution is such an event that we remember it and associate it with the person who first noted it (Kon-Tiki’s chutes and ladders in 41, say, or Greg’s Room 7 solution), but that’s just by way of reference or for purposes of storytelling.

      I consider Kon-Tiki’s 25% solution to be one of those, at least as far as the pyramid balls go. So I refer to that as Kon-Tiki’s solution by way of reference. I named a bunch of other crap in the room that has some 25/75% aspect to it. I don’t care who mentioned any of it first. I don’t think it matters.

      As far as “lights, camera, action” goes, the earliest reference I see to it here is actually my comment on June 5, 2014, followed by Gentile’s reference to 25 as a film strip. If you mentioned it earlier, I apologize for the inaccuracy.

      BUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuut ok, maybe the lesson here is just to stop with all the credit and get on with the solutions.

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    • VW, i agree, but I seem to remember some Mazecasts where alex says some thing like “Dave said..” and your reaction was “Dave said that?? Dave??….Dave said that….” and then you’d ball-out Alex because he once again gave Dave credit for something you thought you had said first ;) but yeah..the credit thing doesn’t matter…..

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    • Haha, yeah, that was probably like fifteen different episodes.

      Mis-crediting is probably a legitimate grievance. Non-crediting is not really an issue. That said, we credit things a lot more often than I can accord with my views on crediting.

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    • Although, given how much hell I give Gentile from time to time, I do think it’s relevant to recognize when I think he has supplied an interesting or useful suggestion, not for Maze-study purposes but just for some minimum of interpersonal decency.

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    • why don’t you throw some of that “minimum of interpersonal decency” in SP’s direction. He always seems to play Laurel to your Hardy :p

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    • I think we might have done lights, camera action independently. Mine involved “cut” in room 35 at the stop signal.

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    • I apologize if I come off as Laurel (am I that clumsy and childlike?). I’ll try and be more tempered in future quips.

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    • This would have gone on my page almost a year ago, but you probably did not read it there.

      In room 13 we have a director’s chair and megaphone and then we have that light. There is a suggestion of “Lights, camera, action”. Then in this room the film roles. Then if we go to room 35 we get to the “stop” signal of “cut”. The “cut” helps us with a puzzle in room 35. This also helps to start guide us around the loop to 35 which is important for a multi room reading of Poe’s Raven.

      The apparent lack of clues gets us thinking about the little that is here, including the falling down signs. “Maybe in another room” hints we should go look for them. In 14 we have 10. In 25 we have 34,13,35 and in 34 we have room 25. That’s 10,34,13,35,25. I know or can guess the word value for these rooms. Measure, I, time, stop, film. “I measure film stop time”. Well that’s a shutter. So those falling down pieces of paper represent a shutter we could infer. Now look to room 9 there is a falling painting. A line from the poem that goes with this room “Open here I flung the shutter”

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    • It’s not my fault that Alex is repeatedly getting me into another fine mess. If you knew what we went through this one time when we were moving a piano you would understand my surly disposition.

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  8. Saying the bullhorn is V shaped makes me question this site. Call it sour grapes, or perhaps a moment of lucidity in the peanut gallery.

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    • I concede, it’s cone shaped, but do 3d objects really count as such in the maze? Or does their 2d representation overrule? Consider things like the axe in Room 4 touching both correct doors, via its 2d viewpoint.

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    • CM uses 2D and 3D. Axe handle 2D. Hidden door to 17, 3D. The cone is a perfect v shape. The sundial fin has a long side and a short and the lamp legs hardly look like a v. Also IT’S IN THE CHAIR WITH THE XS. Sheesh.

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  9. Add on to Aria’s sse/sse solution: The “director chair” clues us to think about “directions” in the first place.

    And as a stretch – the sundial reminds us of a compass.

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  10. With the sundial as the center of the clock: I like the Director’s Chair with its X legs = 10 at 10 o’clock position. The Sun Lamp with its tri stand = 3 at 3 o’clock position. Taking this as 10:15 AM = 10 + 15 = Door 25.

    “No seconds” would cause a loss of time and you know that would mean we need a Leap Year. Leap may be a key word here and/or February 28th for a date.

    Another date choice would be: If it is Saturday the 7th (as previously mentioned) the superstitious ones would indeed be worried about the upcoming “Friday the 13th” bad luck day.

    Note: This room is on my “Blank Canvass” list.

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  11. Well met, gentle viewers! This week in Mazecast features an exciting addition to the team, Aria helps us unravel the mysteries of the untimely Room 13. Go to mazecast dot com and click on Room 13. Worth watching as a few new ideas are mentioned that haven’t been posted.

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    • Just wanted to expand slightly on the sse solution by Aria. The sundial will clearly read noon if that lamp is turned on. (other noons I’ve mentioned above). The sun in the sky at noon (given some assumptions) is due south. So from the info given there South is straight to the right. The doors here are NOT right angle and I suspect this is the reason, so that the correct door can be South-South-East of the sundial. And then the “ess” repeats, and repetition is almost always important in Maze it seems. So – I take it as pretty strong solution.

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    • Aria, there also is another use for the “V”=5. Look at the cord for the lamp, and then one of the legs. It you took a black marker and drew it – that’s a 2. Then add any “V”=5 and you have 2,5=25.

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    • Hmmm… could be! There is definitely a pronounced kink in that cord that seems intentional.

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    • Mazecastians,

      The full 18+7 solution contains a further reason to take the clock as indicating 18 and a further reason for taking Saturday as a 7 and a solid reason for adding the digits.

      As for the indicated day being Saturday and Saturday being the end of the week this is obvious.

      First, until just recently the first day of the week in North America was unquestionably Sunday, back in 1985 it certainly would have been. Even though there is some movement to make the beginning of the week Monday (greatly added by electronic calendars) print calendars in the United States begin on Sunday almost universally reflecting the dominant expectations of the population to this day. [BTW: I hope we transition to Monday, makes more sense to me.]

      Second, “they were worried it was Friday” They are “worried” that it is Friday, thus they must be thinking about it being Friday, or they would not be worried. “it was closer to the end of the week then they thought” given the above it must be Saturday.

      This solution is incomplete, I don’t normally post incomplete solutions but this is tough one. To say it again, “The full 18+7 solution contains a further reason to take the clock as indicating 18 and a further reason for taking Saturday as a 7 and a solid reason for adding the digits.”

      Really enjoyed the MAZECAST, great stuff!

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    • OK, trying to think of a good reason for the 18 + 7…

      If you flip the page as indicated by the hourglass, you sort of get a 7 from the kinked cord of the lamp, and then maybe a plus sign from the shadow of the cord and the lamp, and then an 18 from the lamp post (or whatever you call it) and the sundial/shadow combo that has already been pointed out.

      That’s all I got now.

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    • Ah – well – I think you almost spelled it out there WR. Look at the sign and fill in things from the room. Minute = 00 because both clocks say so. Hour = 18. Both because the clock thinks it is 18:00 and because the sundial says 12 and the clock says 6 and 12+6=18. Day = 7 since it is Saturday and we need a numeric value. And now we have a column of numbers and you add columns of numbers. 7+18+0=25. Yes, that is indeed better.

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    • Dave G,

      Gotta love your confidence! The full solution, alas, is still out there but the time-increments as table-of-figures is part of it. See the solutions above for how it folds into the overall picture. Good job!

      White Raven

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    • Well – here is something that could be added. I wouldn’t but one could – hourglasses have sand that falls down implying we should add down those columns. Well – I guess I might include that.

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    • Haha, I’m always reminded of my first disappointing email exchange with Andrew Plotkin when I was trying to get him interested in Maze again, and I gave him the missing-eyes solution to Room 7 as an example of some cool stuff that had been found, and he offhandedly dismissed it as unconvincing.

      What, What? But, it, but–!

      I don’t know what to say, he’s looking at what I’m looking at, he gets it, totally understands. Doesn’t think it’s legit.

      With the Satruday/7 thing here, I won’t go so far as to say it’s not legit, but I do hear what you’re saying, I see what you’re seeing, and it doesn’t make sense to me to conclude it’s Saturday based on that exchange.

      As I said or tried to say on the cast, the Guide saying, “Well, it’s true that it was closer to the end of the week than they realized,” doesn’t mean the same thing to me as, “But it was even closer to the end of the week than they thought.” The distinction here is relevant because they don’t know what day of the week it is; it being closer to the end of the week than they realize doesn’t mean being closer to the end of the week than the day they’re afraid it might be.

      Some very minor rephrasing can make the other interpretation clear, even if it were just:

      “They thought it was Friday. Well, it was even closer to the end of the week than they realized.”

      But I don’t know which way that cuts, whether that means we should not be picky about language and just read it this way, or whether the fact that it comes so close and DOESN’T read this way suggests that something else is intended. Well, I mean, we apparently know which way is useful to read it here, but I’m saying, as a general interpretive principle, I don’t know how we’d know to do that.

      On TOOOOOOP of any of that, there’s this book’s habit of having statements that don’t make any literal sense, like the statement in 15 about three of them being able to sit down, things that have clue-y significance but can’t be understand in a narrative sense. And this smells of that, because the Guide’s “Well, it’s true that…” suggests that he’s partially agreeing with the group. But, obviously, “it’s closer to the end of the week than the group realizes” isn’t really any kind of confirmation of “we’re worried it might be Friday.”

      Although, the more you analyze it, the more you can see where the wording went astray, how we arrived at this problem. Assume Manson wants to communicate two things, essentially: 1) The group was at least correct about it being close to the end of the week; 2) but it was even closer than they realized. So he combined those into one statement.

      However, when you combine those the way he did, you lose an important distinction between the two halves: The Guide’s “Well, it was true that…” only related to the idea of it being close to the end of the week. That is, he is acknowledging the group to be partly correct only insofar as it is indeed near the end of the week.

      The second part of his statement does not belong with the “Well, it was true that…” qualifier. He is not agreeing with them that it was later than they thought. (They obviously don’t think it’s later than they think it is.) He is adding that on top of his agreement that it is, indeed, late in the week.

      But when you combine both into one statement with the “Well, it was true that…” qualifier, it doesn’t read like he is affirming one thing and adding another. It just reads like he’s affirming, “They didn’t know how late in the week it was.” And since the group apparently doesn’t know what day of the week it is, it seems like that has to be true, whether it’s Thursday or Saturday or whatever.

      If this all seems like esoteric nonsense (or at least very boring)–

      Well, maybe it is, but the funny thing is, if you’re reading it the way WR is, and then you see all this nonsense about why it suggests something else, the reaction must be, “Man, just take it easy, don’t jump through all those hoops trying to complicate things.” But my point isn’t that you jump through these hoops to reach another interpretation; it’s that those phrases ALREADY suggest something very different to us than how WR is reading them, and I’m trying to discern what’s going on. I can see how someone could be trying to say what WR is reading and how it could end up looking like this, but I think we end up with some unfortunate wording that does not suggest what is intended.

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    • We could also add this iffy thing – the lamp being off indicates 6 and night. My issue is that that is really average sunset time – not night, but as a figure of speech 6pm is six at night. So that is another reason to take it as 18.

      Regarding V W ‘s issue with Saturday , 7, etc… That’s actually not something I had an issue with. I agree with WR that it means 7th day. I think the sentence is serving more than one function though too. It (the answer) was closer to the end of the week than they realized. The answer is at the end of “DAY” Y=alphanumeric 25.

      But it functions WR’s way too. Just remove the “Well it’s true”. You get – They were worried it might be Friday. It was closer to the end of the week than they realized. – That’s very simple. Then saying the second half of that is true does not change the meaning. But leaving out the “Welll…” would not allow the Y=25 thing.

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    • Vewatkin and I on opposite sides, this is a rare occurrence. Last time I had Manson confirmation but in this case I am on my own here.

      While I hope there will be more support for this solution when someone finds the rest of it, the day being Saturday may be a sticking point for some as the rest of the solution doesn’t clarify this further.

      I’ll take one more shot at this:

      “They were worried it might be Friday.”

      “Well it’s true that is was closer to the end of the week than they realized.”

      Let’s assume for a moment that we are being given the day as well as the time. It can’t be Sunday-Thursday since these are not closer to the end of the week then Friday. It can’t be Friday itself because that is the same as their fears. Therefore it is Saturday.

      Though your distinction between “realized” and “thought” is lost on me I entirely agree that this could have been phrased a heck of a lot more clearly. Manson uses oblique language to obscure his riddles and the result is sometimes more difficult to interpret than he intended.

      Despite the fact that I do not feel for your objection, the way I figure it, if you and I wind up on opposite sides of something there probably a real interpretive issue here even if I don’t see it.

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    • And to be clear, if I wasn’t, I’m not disputing that you’re correctly reading what Manson intended–I mean, I don’t know, but I presume if there’s something telling us to add 7 and 18 to get 25, there’s something giving us 7 in the first place–I just dispute that that’s the natural reading of those lines.

      I completely understand that if the Guide is saying, “It’s closer to the end of the week than Friday,” that suggests it’s Saturday.

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    • Vewatkin,

      I see. If your main point is, Manson really wrote this oddly, then I totally agree! Regardless how you take the statements they were written too obliquely unless there is a text code hidden in here. :)

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    • Hmm. That cord bend could also be a 7 not a 2 If you look at in the other way. Also the shadow of the sundial and the sundial itself make an 8. The lamp can be a one. So there is another 18 and another 7

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    • “Closer to the end of the week” – could also refer to the sign itself, as in we are only supposed to add the things after “week”: day + hour + minute

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    • Yeah, I have actually been hit and miss around here lately, as life has been getting in the way. Looks like I missed a party

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    • I think I owe somebody the Cluemaster General crown, but for the life of me I can’t figure out who…

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    • No, a room has to be five-starred for the crown to pass, so you’re safe, because we’re still awaiting the conclusion of the “7+18″ puzzle, and the only one who has offered a solution is you, AND it was the last solution offered for the room, so even if the room bumped up to five stars it would be your post that did it!

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  12. Here’s another one. Kind of out there.

    So if the sundial is out in the world, the pointy end (right-hand) end would be facing south. That means the correct door, 25, is situated at SE or SSE. And then in the text you have “possessed,” a somewhat unusual word choice, which contains two instances of “SSE” (or “SE”).

    The “director’s” chair reinforces the idea of looking at direction. (Thanks to vw for that one.)

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    • Sorry Aria, this doesn’t even win the award for most far-flung interpretation of “possessed” so far. (I, however, like it!)

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  13. Just finished the cast, expect a link soon. We’re joined by Sara/Aria this time!

    Riffing off the “trail of pointers” solutions that have been suggested in rooms 10 and 17, and confirmed in the latter, I think you can form a pretty solid connect-the-dots here. Imagine straight lines jutting out from the lamp, the gnomon, the megaphone, and the clock’s pendulum in the directions that each of these are pointing. The lamp points directly to the gnomon; the gnomon doesn’t point directly to the megaphone, but hits its line (and comes close enough to pointing directly to it that the eye is naturally guided there); the megaphone points to the pendulum; and the pendulum points us to door 25.

    Also, I was urged to mention my observation that you can get 25 by adding all the digits in [27, 18, 25], not that I see any real motive to do so. (The “some”/sum of you?)

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    • It was super-fun. I recommend it to everyone! (Both watching and participating.)

      I think that adding-the-door-numbers observation is great — especially coupled with the some (= sum) in the text. Would be a pretty wild coincidence.

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    • Beelzebibble,

      That’s amazing! I have no idea if it is intentional or not but wow! Now I am searching for a reason to do this. If I can find something I will post this as a solution.

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  14. OK, here’s one. In the director’s chair you have two Xs — the obvious one in front and there must be one the same at the rear. Then you have a V in the sundial’s gnomon — or the V could come from the sundial’s gnomon looking like a fin — fin = $5. So X + X + V = 25.

    (I guess the 5 could also come from the V-shaped bullhorn.)

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    • Congratulations Aria!

      The roman numeral for 5, “V”, could be found in several places but taking it from the director’s chair has the advantage of grouping while taking the “V” from the sundial fin has the advantage of being more clearly visible. Given the Manson’s prestigious use of grouping I settled on the megaphone being the “V” but it could go either way.

      White Raven

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    • Wow, how did I miss the megaphone/bullhorn being a V/five? As a grouping that is undeniable!

      Congratulations White Raven!

      You have been awarded the steVen spielberg prize for eXXcellence!

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  15. Well, the Guide Puzzle balloon is sinking fast. On to other business:

    The next MazeCast will deal with Room 13. I don’t feel like we have a lot of good ideas about this one yet. If anyone wants to go nuts on 13 and try to kick up some SCIENCE this would be a good time.

    Also, it has been a while since we made any diplomatic outreaches on the MazeCast front, but I’ll add that the old invitations are always open: Anyone want to join in on the next show? [Said to everyone but with an intense eyeballing toward Aria and 515.]

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    • [Not to mention Kon-Tiki, who seems to have led the attack on this room so far.]

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    • For what it’s worth, I recently got re-excited about this room when i noticed “minute hour” sounded like minotaur, and that these words are directly above the “bull-horn”….get it?…. BULL HORN. i keep thinking the guide trail starts or ends here. another thing: the bull horn and directors chair make us think of lights camera action, and movies. in room 25 there is movie on top of the doors. i was looking for more examples of this…but to no avail. from what i can understand from an email from WR he has a very clear idea about what the “directors chair/ sundial/ lamp” trinity signifies, and that it seems to be something that has some meat to it…. by the way, i think the guide trail ends in 7 (just my 2 cents)

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    • I am very tempted but I feel I don’t have many good ideas about this room!

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    • You have obviously never watched the show if you think having good ideas is a precondition to participation.

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    • The Guide trail ends in a room that has no apparent significance to the Guide’s identity, we are told. I don’t think 7 fits that bill, even if we ignore the suggestion that one of the pictures is of him, just because it speaks of his having a wild childhood.

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    • Did W R say the trail ends in a room that has appears to have no special significance for the guide? He said the key observation appeared to have no special significance, I know. But not sure about the other.

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    • “The trail leads to a room which appears to have nothing to do with the Guide…”

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  16. On the sundial, there are two segments visible over the centre line and five segments visible under the centre line. I’m counting “pie piece” segments, not lines. (2 + 5 –> 25)

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    • Oh, you’re right. I think it works with lines too, though: two above the middle mark, five below.

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    • I see the lines with mag glass – yes. So modified solution would be – count the lines this side up the center piece only.

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    • OK — so rather than say visible lines, we could look at the lines/segments that are illuminated by the sunlight (I’m assuming it’s sunlight) from above. Then we get two above and five below, and the others are in shadow. This is kind of nice, actually, since it is a sundial and all — it makes sense that light and shadow would tell us something here.

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    • Aria,

      This riddle is an great find! Congratulations! Adding it to the board. The “sundial” addition is a nice touch.

      White Raven

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  17. Narrative: it’s true that it was CLOSER.
    Missing “N” in millennium.
    Director’s chair + miss = MISDIRECTION.
    Misdirection of clocks would mean COUNTERclockwise.
    There are 3 KINDS of clocks in the room (pendulum-hour glass-sundial).
    The concept is: Close N Counter of the 3 Kinds = “CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND”.

    Narrative: “more than they POSSESSED” (you are possessed by the DEVIL).
    The doors are flanked by “pyramid TOWERS (these are an architectural style).
    In the movie the site of the encounter was “DEVIL’S TOWER”. The old man in the movie states the oft repeated line, “the sun came out at night” (the clock says 6:00PM the artificial light on the sundial says noon (clue)).

    There should be 10 letters in Millennium or 2 fives = Door #25.
    But I like the previously mentioned numbers in the narrative: “13” + “no no” (noon) (12 o’clock) = Door #25.

    Second is not on the list as there is not a clock in the room that can record “seconds”.

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  18. OK, for what its worth:

    The “missing” “second” on the chart could mean: “second left-out”. which would mean to take the second door on the left (the second door on the left from the sign in any direction or from any reference point, is 25, especially if, as it seems, the room is circular)

    in the same way the missing double N in millennium could be interpreted as “double left-out” = take second left

    on another note…
    The three objects in the middle of the room: Directors chair, Sundial, and Light can be interpreted as: “Direct Sunlight” (or Direction of Sunlight). This draws our attention to the light which seems to be coming directly and strongly, from above. If it IS “Sunlight” , then the implications are interesting.
    the implication that interests me for the moment is:
    - for the light to come in at that angle and at that strength it would have to be about 12oclock noon, or mid-day. if you look at the shadow it looks very defined and not diffuse. this would seem to support the direct sunlight idea.
    The only problem is that this interpretation sort of “loads the bases” but doesn’t bat in any runs as far as using it to find a solution. I’ve been wrestling with it but the only thing i can come up with is : noon = 12 + 13 (room number) = 25. Or, once again supporting the 1/4 idea: the clock is off 6 hours. 6 hours are 1/4 a day = 25.

    -by the way, the sun takes roughly 25 days to rotate.

    -also the chair has an X and the light has three V’s (in the tripod) X+V+V+V= 25. of course one could argue that the chair also has a second X. but one could counter argue that it’s not in direct sunlight…

    I still have nothing substantial for the skeletons holding the clock…

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  19. We’ve always sort of taken it for granted that the Guide can read 6 in the evening from the clock, even though it has no indication of AM or PM on it. But then, he points out that time doesn’t work in the Maze the same as elsewhere. Perhaps he gets 18:00 a different way: by adding the numbers indicated by the hands. 12 and 6, the clock thinks it’s 18:00, i.e. six in the evening.

    Then, if you add in the missing second hand as I indicate below…

    Oh, man, just noticed something else. If you think of the sundial as the center of a clock, you have the sunlamp at 3:00, and it sits on three legs. At 10:00, we have the director’s chair, with legs that make an X (10). No use for that info right now…

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    • pendulum clocks traditionaly don’t have second hands. it’s the pendulum that represents the second, or at least the analagous passing of time. hence thesignificance of the pendulum pointing to 25.

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    • Well, it’s at least not true that a pendulum’s period has any necessary relation to seconds. The period of the pendulum is a function of the length of the pendulum. They can be made of such a length that the swing of the pendulum corresponds to seconds, but a seconds pendulum is about a meter long and doesn’t seem to be what we’re dealing with here.

      As to whether pendulum clocks don’t take second hands, I don’t know, but it is not true as a general principle that pendulums serve that function.

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    • BUUUUUUUUUT, a half-second pendulum, that could be what we’re looking at, which effectively measures seconds just as well.

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  20. The sign is missing “second,” and the clock is missing a second hand. If the clock had a second hand, and if it were pointing at the word “second,” it would be pointing at the 7′s place on the clock.

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  21. just a few loose ends: the main theme in this room is obviously: Time

    -Time is the 4th dimension. Which strengthens the 1/4 argument. (one could run with the image and say the 3 doors represent the other 3 dimensions)

    - in the Time division chart, Season is omitted. 4 seasons… of course one could argue that season is an artificial creation. but so are weeks and centuries (which is just a grouping of a natural cycle, like seasons)…

    -to add to the saturday + 18 oclock = 25 ( which I don’t particularly care for): Saturday gets its name from its association with Saturn. Saturn/chronos is associated with Time. So when/if one makes the “later in the week” = saturday leap, the association with Saturn/time makes more sense. without this connection it seems arbitrary to add 7 + 18 ( imho anyway)

    - the cable of the light makes an arrow with the shadow under its tripod base, and pointing to door 25.

    - on the time chart “Second” is obviously missing. the word second comes from a Latin phrase meaning the “second small division” (minute being the first). so this also strengthens the 1/4 argument. if you divide a cirle in half once you get 1/2 and then a “second” time, one gets 1/4.

    – the missing “second” can be meant to draw our attention to the pendulum of the clock (which ticks out seconds) and which is pointing towards do or 25.

    miscellaneous thought: what of the shadows under the chair , the sundial and the light. which make, respectively, a square, a circle and a triangle.

    sorry for the longwinded post.

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