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…a stone chamber which reminded me of my old neighbors. Of course, that was a long time ago now, but would you believe their descendants are still telling stories about me and my family to their children?
Even if most of the stories are lies and exaggerations, it is immortality of a sort.
As I passed in front of an open doorway a figure, crossing the hall outside, saw me and immediately ran off.
“Who was that?” they asked.
“Another visitor, to be sure.”
“Why did he run away?”
“You probably scared him,” I said, and they apparently believed me.
With few regrets on my part we left for…
- Images and text copyright 1985 by Christopher Manson
used with permission. [Purchase MAZE from Amazon]
Room Type: LOOP Doors: 4 7 32 36
Solution Summary: [COLLECTION CURATED BY WHITE Raven. SEE COMMENTS FOR ADDITIONAL SOLUTION PROPOSALS.]
● In the machine are two upside down hidden sevens. [Independent Credit: david gentile | White Raven] In the trap door is a hidden seven. [Credit: david gentile] The arm of the creature in the poster forms a seven. [Independent Credit: vewatkin | White Raven]
● The picture on the wall is Orson (as represented in the print by 16th century artist Peiter Brugel the elder) from the play/novel/poem “Valentine and Orson” [Independent Credit: Kubala Koala | White Raven] This theme is reinforced by Os and Vs hidden about the room. (V shaped keystones over the doors, circular room, O shaped handle on the trap door, V shape gap of the open trapdoor, circular silhouette of the pot, circle holes in the pot lid, circular gears, etc.) [Shared Credit: Aria / SP] “Valentine and Orson” was written by an unknown French author in the 15th century and rewritten in several forms in the 16th and 17th centuries. A common element is the rise of Orson from unthinking wild-man to king. The jester/fool and crown are paired symmetrically and represent Orson’s story. The correct door is indicated by the crown. [Independent Credit: MIT10 | White Raven] The mention in the text of another visitor who runs off, may be a reference to the villagers fleeing from Orson during his early days as a wild-man. [Credit: Vewatkin] [Note: This solution is incomplete]
Manson it seems has put his soul here in the form of the Maze guide Raven. And this it seems is one way in which “some souls will live in the world”. Room 16 mentions an “Immortality of sorts” when people still tell stories about you, and this idea fits in well.
Oh gosh – “Be that word our sign of parting” – Raven poem.
Poe pull and points. The whole room points at scurrying guy. The belt and arm of the machine. The jesters nose. The pole in the Trap door. A handle of the pot. The club of the man.
We have a number of close hits to “poe” besides the Po. We have the master’s pole. The trap door or smoke hole pole. The machine has a thing you “pull”
More support for “poe” is it the text. Stories twice. scared once.
Does his running “pull” us to 7?
I don’t see the jester’s nose pointing that way, but some other stuff sure does. And the trap door itself points to the door for 7, contraption, tapestry (not really buying that, but), part can become trap, but trap can also become part…
Is the “part” from “few regrets on my part” a reference to things containing those letters? A reference to Tophat, who is parting from them (and departing)?
It seems a little jerryrigged, but the phrase “few regrets on my part” certainly seems to serve no literal purpose, we have a trapdoor here, trap—part elsewhere, Tophat leaving in the right direction…
It’s not the worst solution ever suggested, but it doesn’t adequately explain why all this goofy stuff is in the room.
“with few regrets on my part” has 7 syllables. Perfect for the middle line of a haiku. Or a door indicator for 7. Does not really work because it is not even the complete sentence, so just grins.
Man, it all be bout dem HATS, we all sed it, but dig it yo
Jester’s cap, it be pointing to 36 cause man if you think we be going to 36 I KNOW YOU BE JOKIN
Chamber pot pointy hat–CUZ MAN DAT BE CRAP
Barefoot giant with the crown of leaves–best you be LEAVING that at the door
Tophat in his top hat–now we got a real live one, and that top hat is taking him straight to -minute-in-heavenville
But the CROWN–ain’t nobody wearing that! Who that be for? It’s all yours, man, take the crown and be gone.
I don’t think we give this room enough credit for being inscrutable.
Haikiu:
The chamber of the hats.
All wear one, but the machine.
Should we take the crown?
The trap door angles towards 7 and there are one or two hidden 7s under it.
Turn machine upside down. More 7s in base.
The stone v above door 7 can be a seven. So can one over 16 maybe.
With a lot of effort maybe a 7 in the guides legs
Chamber pot handle has a seven.
David Gentile,
Congratulations on the sevens in the machine, and the one in the trap door – didn’t see that one myself!
White Raven
A lot written here and a seemingly big clue.
But what is the machine?
http : // www . davegentile.com/stuff/maze.html
has nearly everything that has been suggested, including what I think the machine is.
Three ribbons on the jester’s pole might be a clue to the three plumage things on the back of the toy duck in 7.
Ursas club points from scurrying man to 7.
Text says “another visitor, to be sure (of which way to go)
Neighbors – of course
Another visitor – to be sure
When Orson was found by his brother Valentine he was brought to the court of King Pepin, who was also known as Pepin the Hunchback. A theory: Taken together, Orson and Punch clue King Pepin, who in turn clues the crown, which in turn clues Door 7.
Pot + hat…top hat?
He runs away from confusion machine and towards 7
Poe is scurrying to the Po because he has to go? No
Curtain rod. Club. Leg arm. All point 7
But Orson is strutting in the other direction, toward 36 – so this seems arbitrary.
The solution is incomplete, thus it not being in the summary.
The man scurries towards 7 too,
Yep, he makes a 7. I think we got points there.
David Gentile,
Correct on the man scurrying toward 7.
The eyes in the room (jester, Orson) are looking to the wrong door, which is unusual. Elsewhere, where eyes look at doors, this has been a trustworthy clue. I think the key here is the Guide saying mentioning the “lies and exaggerations” associated with his neighbors’ stories.
His club points to the correct door, however, and the line of his leg and arm.
And I think he looks more off into space than at 36.
Well, the angles on his body go all over. I don’t think we can read anything from that.
We’re still pretty far from something here.
Look at his left leg and then his left arm draw the line that follows both and hit hits the 7, as does the line of the club. I’m thinking that is a Raven sort of find there.
Oh, no, you know what it is? His left arm and leg go together to make an actual 7. Do you see it?
Sorry if that’s a silly suggestion, but once you see it it looks pretty clear, and it gives purpose to the stiff, awkward walking motion.
http:/ /en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamber_pot
http:/ /www.innovateus.net/innopedia/what-history-chamber-pot
Actually I thought chamber pot before I noticed it was in a chamber. But at a minimum it is a pot in a chamber so good hypothesis. The fact that it can be called a PO and that the car running from P door to O door is part of room 4 solution counts as confirmation for me.
why can it be called a PO?
You know what they say: PO money PO problems.
Anchor person : I count them as two separate objects. There is a chamber pot. And there is a clown hat thing. One sits on top of the other.
It is a pot, but it isn’t a chamber pot. Or at least, there is no reason for thinking it is a chamber pot.
Now let’s look at the bit about the stories full of lies and exaggerations that his old neighbor’s descendants are still telling about him. This is native American Raven.
It seems as though his neighbors are 16th century French.
Where do people still tell stories of Raven? The “old man” of a main Raven story is in 7, but I’m still putting that together. Room 6 is where the story of Native American Raven matters the most. (See my page).
Ahhhh….what about the room reminds him of Native Americans (and their stories of him flying out the smoke hole)?
http: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_hole#mediaviewer/File:Kirbuster_Farm_Museum_-_geograph.org.uk_-_508633.jpg
How about the hole in the floor reminds him of a smoke hole?
It’s also kinda like a trapdoor.
Here is the whole thing, all together:
This is a chamber. The text tells us that. Next door in the music room we have a small string performance. “Chamber music” is a small intimate string performance. The round object is a chamber pot.
That figure straight ahead of us is through the door to room 4. The black cat in room 4 runs from here, room 16, to room 15, spelling “PO(E)”, since P and O are the 16th and 15th letters of the alphabet. Note in room 4 it says that the cat came from the right. And we have just come from the “Poe” room if we are on the right path, so the black cat we should think of is from Poe’s story, so this may be “Pluto” the cat. Note this is “P…o” the cat. For confirmation that we followed him we can look in room 15. We are told that we hear a bump and footsteps hurrying away, and then a door slams.
In room 4, the voices we hear are probably the guests themselves in room 16, since sometimes events in the Maze happen at the same time. See rooms 37 and 10 for example.
Next, if we look at room 16, we are told, “A figure crossing the hall outside saw me and ran off”, and we see a figure in the archway to room 4. In room 4 we are told:“It was fortunate I was still standing with the rest of them or they might have noticed.” My translation: It is fortunate I (in 16) was still standing with the rest of them (in 16) or they (the guests in 4) might have noticed.
Another “PO” thing here is the chamber pot. This is also known as a “po”, maybe from French pot de chambre. The text also mentions the word “chamber”.
We should have Poe on our minds by now. The figure on the wall may be “Ursa” or at least is a bear man. He has bear feet. He bears a crown of Holly. Through the exit to 7 there is a bear skin, and here there is a crown. The Po also may bear a crown. What has a bear crown that connects with Poe? The Raven. From the poem: “Though thy crest be shorn and shaven ghastly grim and ancient Raven”.
Are there other Raven hints here? Yes. “Chamber” of course. The text says the figure in the door may be a visitor. We see him through a chamber door. From Poe’s poem: “While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping, as of some one gently rapping, rapping on my chamber door. Tis some visitor I muttered, tapping at my chamber door, only this and nothing more.
Soon after in the poem we have “the sad uncertain rustling of each purple CURTAIN”. The picture of the man hangs from a curtain rod, and it seems to be rustling. This corner of the room represents the Raven.
Note room 17 – the MAZE is a “confusion machine”. Now here in room 36 that “motley” is meant to represent the fool. Numerous examples exist, but this one seems particularly apt:
Folly’s words usually held vital information for the teams, in the form of both clues and spells. Think of Richard’s team in series 1, who had to work out that Folly had given them a WELL spell amongst all his tricky riddling, and of Jamie’s team in series 2, who had to pick out a clue about stepping on the Jack of Spades when the time came to Pick a Card. Folly always helped the teams through his professional prattle, and they had to listen carefully to pick up on what he was really telling them: ”There’s more wisdom in foolish wit than ever you can imagine.” – Folly.
http:// interactive.knightmare.org.uk/component/legacy/page/display/lexicon?s=view&EID=folly
But let’s take him to me the “fool” more generally. And a fool’s job can include confusion. Paired with the machine we have a “confusion machine” and as room 17 told us, this = MAZE.
Let’s put it all together now. Left to right, we have “MAZE, guide, Raven”.
The round object is not a chamber pot. A chamber pot stores human waste products, so it wouldn’t have a slotted conical cap on the top which would allow it to vent the odors into your bedchamber (chamber pots were so-called because they were kept in your bedchamber).
So in 16 we have “confusion” and “machine” and room 17 tells us those two together = MAZE.
The guy running across ahead of us. That is the “guild” himself in room 4.
The stuff on the is about Raven.
In total, left to right: MAZE guide Raven.
I can see why the rooms are linked- there’s a similarity in composition. Is there another clue to that fact?
What makes you believe the top-hatted man is the Guide?
Where are you getting Raven from?
What television show are you talking about?
HEre is the web page I grabbed. I need to resaerch him more. He not just from the TV show.
http: // interactive.knightmare.org.uk/component/legacy/page/display/lexicon?s=view&EID=folly
4 and 16 are another set of rooms that happen at the same time. In room 4 you can find the correct door the 2nd time through using that idea, and the cat running from 16 to 15. The letter values of 16 and 15 are “P” “O” and there we would have just come from the PO room and we should follow the cat to 15.
In room 4 the guide says stuff about the group did not notice and “standing with the others” He is standing with the other group of guests (in 16).
Note room 17 – the MAZE is a “confusion machine”. Now in room 36 that is not “motley” it is “folly”.
Gathered from the web:
Yes, behind all the dodgy jokes and bad rhymes, Folly’s words usually held vital information for the teams, in the form of both clues and spells. Think of Richard’s team in series 1, who had to work out that Folly had given them a WELL spell amongst all his tricky riddling, and of Jamie’s team in series 2, who had to pick out a clue about stepping on the Jack of Spades when the time came to Pick a Card. Folly always helped the teams through his professional prattle, and they had to listen carefully to pick up on what he was really telling them: ”There’s more wisdom in foolish wit than ever you can imagine.” – Folly.
So, the man in the tapestry is Orson/Ursa/Nameless from Valentine and Orson. The question then becomes: is that knowledge necessary to solve the room? That he was raised by a bear could relate to the fur leading here from room 7.
OrSON could relate to the neighbor’s “descendants”. What he believes is an exaggeration- a lengthening of the path- and he looks in the same direction as the fool toward 36.
Room 7 is the better path, but like 16′s sister room 36, it doesn’t matter much. One could wander around this micro loop for a time and then eventually find their way out in room 7. The crown/fool (Mr. Punch?) dichotomy could be the same sort of equivocating.
I do not know what the room’s other two objects are- the vase with the birthday hat and the machine. Surely, however, if Orson’s identity is important, than knowing what these things are is also necessary.
It is a chamber pot. This is also called a chamber. A chamber pot can be called a “Po”.
The URSA = bear guy, with bare feet and bearing a crown of holly and next to a crow. This corner is a ll about “bear crown”. (psss….”Raven”). The hat – not so sure about. It does have 7 full circles for door 7, however. And maybe it bears a crown of sorts too.
chamber is in the text, I mean.
Oh and “back into the ‘chamber’ turning” is from the Raven by Poe.
It doesn’t look like a chamber pot to me, though I’d give you the fact that it’s a pot in a chamber.
And the musicians near by are playing chamber music, I think.
What makes it chamber music?
What strikes me here is the way objects are physically combined. We have a jester’s head on a tall pole–presumably this means more than just “jester” or “pole.” We have Orson hanging from a curtain on a curtain rod–there are a lot of images simply hanging from walls in Maze, but this is the only one hanging from a curtain rod, I believe. And then there’s that pot with the weird cone thing on top.
I keep trying to figure out some kind of word play involved in combing these images in this way, but, obviously, nothing.
Curtain to me connects to:
“and the sad uncertain rustling of each purple curtain”…
No colors here. Anyway we can tell if it is supposed to be purple?
That jester on a stick is called a marotte- a French word. Orson is also a French character.
I noticed those 7 holes, too, but I couldn’t find a clue to point to it.
Oooh, now you might like this. A HUNCHBACK jester famously used a marotte in the Verdi opera Rigoletto. Perhaps that Punch from the tilty room is actually Rigoletto? The story seems at par in terms of fame as the other Jester-based literary reference- Fortunato.
The identity of the beardy man IS REALLY BUGGING ME!! Who is he?? He looks like a dirty druid, or Belshnickle (from German folklore… and Dwight Shrute in The Office)
He’s either the Giant or Orson from the Masquerade of Orson and Valentine, as depicted by Peter Bruegel the Elder.
O&V was based on a French Romance first printed at Lyons in 1489. The story begins with two brothers abandoned in the woods. One is raised by a friendly bear, and becomes a sort of bearded Tarzan-esque Bear-Man first known as Nameless, then as Orson (Latin ursus, bear). The other brother grows up in the court of King Pippin as the valiant knight Valentine. They meet and Valentine vanquishes and domesticates Orson who becomes his faithful servant and companion (reminds me of epic of Gilgamesh?) They then rescue their mother, Bellisant, from a Giant. Critics cant decide if the ‘beardy’ guy in the Bruegel print is the Giant or Orson, apparently.
Good find. Here’s a wikipedia article with the pic and description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentine_and_Orson
I don’t know…the most significant feature of the bearded guy is that he appears to be made out of / melded with a tree. He’s not so much a wild man as he is a half tree half man. Is the character from the Masquerade of Orson and Valentine part wood?
Most of the verified solutions thus far have been linguistic. It is my guess that the solution to this room is a phrase of some kind. The club and hybrid tree/man is probably one word of that phrase. But take this with a grain of salt, it’s just a guess.
Where, I ask, knowing the answer is almost certain to be more confusing than had I never asked?
For a second I thought we were on room 43 and you were doing some post-irony thing pfffft
I said I saw a bull on the front cover? Did that really happen?
Your question may be rhetorical, William, but I think that, yes, part of the reason for suggesting things here is so that people can tell you they disagree and why.
“Here’s an idea. If you see something that you don’t agree with, then don’t respond to it.”
A lot of the time that’s what happens… other times, we ask you once you mean, and give our two cents. Other other times, you respond to an already existing thread to correct what someone else said. Doesn’t that go against your idea?
….that’s because this is a public forum and disagreement and agreement is kind of the point right? I understand how it could be frustrating to be disagreed with so much, but like… “circle of bigots?”
?????? I’m sorry, I’m kinda losing you
“You’ve spent months upon months doing nothing but floundering about with hidden meanings…”
It’s been way longer than months. When I first discovered the abyss in 2018 it was already littered with his comments.
I’m fairly certain I never said I saw a bull on the front cover.