Room 33

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…the room with no floor. They crowded each other on the narrow ledge. The bold one ventured out to the center.

Realizing that they could see all of the signs only from the center of the room, several wanted to turn back.

With exaggerated caution, considering their predicament, they finally reached the door they wanted and eventually found themselves in…

  - Images and text copyright 1985 by Christopher Manson
used with permission. [Purchase MAZE from Amazon]

 

Room Type:  LOOP     Doors:  3   7  17  35

Solution Summary: [COLLECTION CURATED BY WHITE Raven. SEE COMMENTS FOR ADDITIONAL SOLUTION PROPOSALS.]

● The correct door is 3. The correct door is suggested by the three sides of the triangles. [Independent Credit: vewatkin | White Raven]

● The line in the text, “Realizing that they could see all of the signs only from the center of the room several wanted to turn back,” can be edited to read, “- – - – see all of the signs only from the center – - – several – - turn back.” [Credit: White Raven] Over the available doors only door 3 does not have a mirror reversible image. (Door 35: flutes in a V. Door 7: dagger and crown) [Independent Credit: vewatkin | White Raven] [This solution is incomplete]

● The flutes in a V next to door 35 and dagger next to door 7 both point downward into the pit while the clarion in the doorway to door 3 points upward away from the pit. The triangle signs point up suggesting we look for an upward escape. [Independent Credit: vewatkin | White Raven] The sign over door 3 is the only sign for an available door not lit by the (hellish?) light from below. [Independent Credit: vewatkin | White Raven]

● The phrase in the text “turn back” – if the wagon went backwards, it would go toward 3 (the angle is accurate). [Credit: vewatkin]

● Some of the boards appear more flimsy than others. Perhaps the two best boards are to the drum door (from The Path, indicating a wrong move) and to Door 3 the correct choice. [Credit: Hello Gregor] The board to the drum door being on top of the board to Door 3 may suggest an order of preference or a route (from drum to 3).

● The violin/fiddle has no bow and cannot be played. The drum in the picture is playing but it is just a picture. The clarion, however, can be played. This suggests we take the door next to the clarion (door 3) and not the door next to the non-functional violin (door 33). It also perhaps suggests that the door associated with the drum (from 17, locked) was correct and a person coming from there took a wrong turn (cf. the crown in Room 25). [Credit with a hint: Moleman | Credit: White Raven]

33path

66 thoughts on “Room 33

  1. Here’s something that’s kind of interesting, maybe, relating to the text about “turning back” and the “centre of the room”…

    You can only actually turn back if you came from 3, 7, or 35. In each of those rooms there is an object in the middle of the room pointing to a door. In the case of 7 and 35, the object points you back to 33, the best choice in those rooms. (Well, the ONLY choice in 35.) In the case of 3, it points you onwards to 18. So in all the rooms you can get to from here, the objects in the centre of the rooms are reliable pointers.

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    • abc,

      Solutions only please. If you don’t wish to offer a possible solution, don’t mention it at all. Thanks!

      White Raven

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    • If you cross your eyes just the right amount, you can see a “3″ pop off the page.

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    • abc,

      Thanks for the clarification. Personally I don’t see anything but I could never get those magic eye images to work for me. I take it that it is a rather large 3. Can you tell us where in the image you are seeing it?

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    • I think he’s just saying if you look at the room number and cross your eyes the two 3s merge. Correct me if I’m wrong, abc…

      Have there ever been any solutions that use the room numbers in the bottom right corner?

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  2. Narrative: “see all the SIGNs only from the center of the room.” We have a “SIGNet” ring…wirh “ET” left over-”phone home” from the SF movie-as I am loking at a “Communication” theme this seems important.

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  3. Aria, this may interest you at least – room 33 – the flutes – “…” “…”.
    This was not on my Raven path of the “…”s so it signifies something else Raven related. But I already know what that is. This is the room in which the Raven poem starts. I think the way Manson probably envisioned it is that people would find guide paths before this – and they would be confused by paths leading to Manson and paths leading to Raven. Part of the clue to find this poem is the speeches of the “thoughtful one”. In room 10 we have a good door indicator by ignoring part of what the guide says but not all of it. We do this with what she says there as well and get “we have to go around to prove something”. Her other speeches help with the exact path to follow. What does going around prove? It proves thee stick man represents “the soul of Manson” in room 3. But the top-hatted figure in 16 is also “maze guide Raven” and the path of hats/buttons uses the top-hatted man and leads to Raven. Thus – Manson is the guide and Raven is “the soul of Manson”. Now why would he label himself a bird? Well on the surface he is saying he is a trickster, just like he labels himself a Hermit in 27. But there is also another riddle and answer here that explains the connection much better and does not involve him calling himself a literal Raven. That riddle is written on wall 40 – and I believe I have the answer to it now. And it ties things together nicely.
    One last detail – this room is marked by the flutes with the “…”s. But it is also marked by a ring with a bird on it – indicating we go around the small inner loop here to find something bird related. Someone once asked me if that was a white Raven on the ring. I thought not at the time. But it turns out that it is. Same name but no relation to our gracious host aka “whitey-ray-ray”

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    • Dave G, the image on the ring is a bird but there is no way to tell the species or the color. It appears to be an engraved ring in which case the background color would be the color of the metal but in this case the ring image is itself engraved on a plaque. So it is likely an image of a nondescript bird on a nondescript ring.

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    • Well, no, you, can’t tell from just that. But there IS a Raven poem recited around an inner loop of rooms, starting here. Once you know that and what it tells you about the relation between Manson-guide and Raven-guide, and then observe that the bird marks the start of a ring of rooms about a bird and sits on a ring – well obviously at that point it is Raven. And it is not black – so it is indeed a white Raven like from the Native American story.

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    • I am definitely fond of your ellipsis idea (although WR has nixed as a Guide Path) but more I think because it represents something being excised or elided and there are so many instances of missing things or blank spaces in Maze.

      It may just be that Manson likes ellipses as a writer… many writers are fond of them. (See what I did there?) JK Rowling loves them, for example. And things in threes are pretty common I think just as an artistic choice…

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    • Yep – I noticed that one – maybe left it out of summary. But taking a break for the moment – so list away.

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    • I left my book at work today, so I’m not ideally equipped but…

      Well, you can get a lot of half-hearted figure 8s all over, but that seems like more of a problem than a solution. Like the chain links in 44–maybe there are a couple that really look like an 8, but I dunno. There’s probably something you can do with the rope, or Athena’s owl helmet there…

      36, guuuuhhh, the body of the guitar?

      16, the latch on the trap door, something on the machine?

      It’s not clear where this path is going, though, if it’s anything, because it’s kind of meandering all over. I don’t see anything in 3 unless you do something dumb with a couple pots, which fits with other garbage I’m doing here…

      The dragon, the rug, the tree seem like the most interesting of this lot…but inevitably, there are just things all over that sort of fit the bill. Maybe this can be tightened up, but I’m skeptical, because WR mentioned the observation hadn’t been noted, and we certainly noted the 8s in 21 long ago. Is there a better way to describe the tree and dragon and carpet things? (“Only farfetchedly similar”?)

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    • It might be less about 8s and more about path-like things – brooms on the ground in 2 and 31 probably count.

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  4. Just to give Vince one less nutty solution to complain about I’m going to retract the Beethoven theory in this room. It has been getting progressively weaker with time. The final nail was Manson pretty nearly saying to WR that the sign saying “NINE” in room 3 was just about non-confusion with 6. Without that piece there is no linkage to Beethoven’s ninth and the “world” solution. Plus – I have a much better solution here in 33 these days that uses objects in a systematic fashion like room 45. The room represents a dance hitch where one puts one weight on the 3rd count. “Put your weight on 3″ – the plank to 3. This solution uses every bit of the room and does so systematicly whereas Beethoven used random room pieces – and not all of them – and it gives an exit, which Beethoven did not. So – I still feel I understand this room – just much differently than 3 years ago – thus progress. Now what I don’t understand – and will have to revisit is the sand room next door – 17.

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  5. If Edgar Allan Poe is the key to MAZE, then here is another Poe story:
    Starting at Door #3 and working across the ledges we have a signet ring and a bee. Bees make wax/signet rings emboss in sealing(ceiling)wax. Next we have a drum/drum sticks and a key. Stick + key = sticky. Next we have another pitcher. Pitch is used as a sealing (ceiling) substance and is also sticky like wax. Next over Door #35 we see a cart with wheels. Cartwheels are performed by raising your arms over your head to form a stiff “V” as we also see a V on the ledge. The feet are them held straight and parted to form an inverted “V” that we see below the door “Viol”. Once in position, the body is in the form of an X and you now lean left or right and throw your stiff Vee’d body over sideways flipping Vee’d feet over Vee’d arms and back again all the while maintaining the stiff X form (one V up-arms and one V down-legs). Next we have a dagger/blade on Door #7 ledge. If you attach the blade to the “cartwheel that is moving back and forth from left to right then back right to left and we are clued it is on the “ceiling” we have a pendulum swinging back and forth over a pit: “The Pit and the Pendulum”. Then we have the points of the crown on Door #7 ledge pointing up. If you look up over Door #7 you will see a menacing perched “bird”in the light shade. In the narrative we are told “They CROWded each other”. I would not enter Door #7 with the menacing CROW/bird…I would not enter Door #35 as there is a pendulum with blade swing back and forth across the doorway. Door #3 would be the safe door to enter.

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    • I’ve just been dismissively sarcastic up to now, but sincrerely now, this just isn’t a sensible forum to make these kinds of declarations. There is a community effort here to solve, and we share our thoughts and findings with each other. The exception is White Raven, who is already playing the part of mysterious guy with a lot of answers who isn’t telling. Even WR’s MO rubs some people the long way, but he at least has legitimate claim to having a lot of answers and trying to help others find them on their own. The solutions you’ve posted here, and perhaps elsewhere (are you Thrail Krider?), sometimes include interesting observations that others have not made, but do not generally seem to be convincingly correct. Not even to David Gentile. It seems that by declaring that you’ve found a solution and not sharing it all you’re really doing is keeping your efforts away from public scrutiny and ensuring any helpful observations you’ve made don’t get shared with anyone else. We would all much rather be working with a new person with new thoughts and insights than just rolling our eyes at claims like these.

      (WR has demonstrably done better with Maze than anyone else, and we still roll our eyes at about half of his endorsed solutions. David Gentile has a huge number of self-endorsed solutions that nobody else buys. The rest of us stopped agreeing with each other about anything about a month ago. It’s very easy to come up with solutions that satisfy one’s self, but difficult to find ones that withstand any kind of scrutiny.)

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    • And besides, HM – even if you did find something else in the room there are often many things going on in one room. To me the most central point of the room is to get to the answer “Put your weight on 3″…but that’s me.

      And Vince, I would not say that nobody buys my solutions (well…OK…some I don’t even buy), and although that generally seems to be true for most people here about many of my complex solutions there are exceptions.

      The interesting thing I find, however, is that people who have no preconceived idea of what they are supposed to find in Maze don’t have problems with them when they are explained to them. (Other than the general – “that would take too much time for me to find”)

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    • It’s also fair to say that I seem to be more liberal in accepting solutions (mine and others) than anyone here. Vince seems to be the most skeptical, from what I can tell. But I have also noted our interaction seems particularly effective in generating solutions, possibly because of the interaction of different ways of thinking about it. So…back to the original point…join in the fray HM…just post stuff.

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    • I agree with you on most or all of that, Dave. I’m the hardest on solutions, whoever comes up with them, and this website is full of places where I’ve said that solutions were awful and stupid and made me violently displeased–only to later come back and say, ok, with a small shift in how I think about it, it does seem to make sense.

      That said, I think it’s true for almost everyone, if not everyone, that the majority of solutions/clues they suggest end up being pretty clearly bunk–not because they’re stupid people or bad at puzzles, but just because it’s kind of the nature of this book that you throw out a lot of ideas before you hit on the right one.

      Dave’s right that he and I are on opposite ends of a spectrum of solution tolerance, but this website is also full of places where Dave and I while talking to each other have struck upon something that made a lot of sense to both of us. We don’t need a bunch of like-minded people working on Maze; we need a bunch of people thinking differently.

      Hidden Mystery’s thinking is clearly original and different from everyone else’s; but closing off suggested solutions and assuming them to be correct does not help anyone involved. Depending on your level of enthusiasm for Maze (and the Maze community) there are a lot of ways to get together with others–or, if you just want to use the Abyss, or even your own website, there’s nothing for us to complain about in that. But in whatever way you choose to interact, it’s best to share what you see.

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  6. Ok, It seems a stretch, but even if if were to represent Beethoven’s 9th symphony. Are you seriously saying that was the prize answer or are you just guessing that would be it?

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    • Yes – in 1985 when the book was published there was a contest. There was a $10,000 prize. You needed to find the shortest path to the center and back. Then you needed to find the riddle in room 45, and the answer to the riddle based on clues along the path. The riddle was “In what house will some live?” (seemingly sort of confirmed by Manson recently) or “In what house will all live? (confirmed by Manson as close long ago).
      The path clue is “Like Atlas you bear it upon your shoulders” (also confirmed by publisher, long ago) and the final answer is “The World” (again, confirmed decades ago).

      Besides the riddle of the path I believe we have since identified a few helper clues that might in some alternate universe help you find “the world” and the $10,000 (distributed to a dozen or so people that got close long ago). Not everyone agrees with me about all of these, but…

      1) There is the hat box in room 10 that has a symbol of the earth on it. It is surrounded by rooms that have targets or target-like things.
      2) The far wall in 40 has the answer, if it is decoded.
      3) In room 27/9 you can be led to the Tarot card representing the world.
      4) And finally there is this 3-room Beethoven puzzle.

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  7. The connection to the Raven poem is unmistakeable in the text. How does anyone connect this to “Beethoven’s ninth symphony”? Music, yes. Beethoven???

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    • It is on my page. But…
      The ring can be an “O” with a wren. There is a Bee a T and a V. Bee…T…O…wren, and then plug in the V for the W.

      There is a Wagon – it can be a “Van”.

      There is a violin.

      The 9th’s “ode to Joy” is sometimes played by a drum and bugle core.

      I count that as 3 hits. Spelling in by itself would be fairly meaningless because of how much freedom there is here. The additional hits are important.

      Then next door – in 29 – take the sounds of sand and mix them into amphorea. Notice the guide makes a point that we should pronounce something. You can also spell it out in a way outlined on my page. You fill the empty containers with sand and you get “symphony”.

      Finally in room 3, also ajoining we have “NINE” spelled in letters. Together it is a multi-room “Beetoven’s ninth symphony” which still would be suspect as by now quite coincidental if not for the fact that it gives us an answer we expect to find in MAZE. Beethoven’s ninth is a musical representation of “the World”, and that is the answer that won the original prize. And note – it is not something just slightly associated with the ninth. It is what Beethoven planned it to represent and something anyone who studies the ninth academically would know. It IS the world.

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  8. Since this room involves Beethoven and music it seems we should involve the Medieval philosophical idea that “seeing”=direct experience and “hearing” =faith. “put your weight on 3” also seems to involve faith. But I’m not sure that gets us anything we don’t have here already.

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  9. Only door 3 has left-facing symbols on its side placards, and both of them are left-facing.

    The drum is debatable, but probably faces left, potentially shooting down the relevance of this observation.

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  10. You know, in a meta-mazey kind of way, the insect’s wings form the figure-eight of the path, and the key is, we know, the shape of the trap. Coming from 17, we’ve put ourselves between the Path and the Trap, though it takes more figuring than I can do in my head to make a drum a reasonable symbol for the loop. I mean, it’s circular, if that does it for you.

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  11. The crown has 5 points , so no mirror there. But still…I think it would fail formal significance test. So if you are keepin a well confirmed list then , no. But…I still suspect it is a minor thing.

    The rotational symetry of the horn is no good though it seems, because the crown has that too.

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  12. Interestingly, in tarot, the chariot is the 7th trump of the major arcana; if the chariot image in this room is a reference to tarot, it joins 20′s Tower and 27′s Hermit in being associated with the wrong door.

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  13. * The word “center” is mentioned twice and “turn” once. This is to bring our attention to concentric/turned/mirror image objects. There are 3 in this room (flutes, dagger, crown). We cannot fully see if the fly is mirror-imaged.
    * The concentric instrument is the horn, which is by 3.
    * The wheels on the wagon are concentric. “Turning back” – if the wagon went backwards, it would go toward 3 (the angle is accurate).
    * The signs are triangles / 3 sides.
    * The flutes have 3 holes each.
    * The violin has 3 strings.
    * The sign to 3 is the only one not lit by the hellish light from below.
    * Of the shadows coming up, the one on 3 is the only one that’s CENTERED with the doorway.
    * GREG’S BIG REVEAL: The plank to/from 3 is the only stable one!

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    • Sad appendix: the nine pictures above the doors are groupable into three groups of three according to various characteristics. Inquire for more details, but you can probably figure it out.

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    • 3 visible wheels on the chariot, akin to the four feet on the painting in 42.

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    • Well and circular wagon wheel don’t add anything I can see. But lots of good ones. And I like Watkins groups of three. And I think we can find beethoven here and confirmed and productive. And the first Raven stanzas. What is amazing really is the planning it would take to make so many puzzles interleaved like this so that most objects have layers of meaning. In very mapped rooms you could hardly change any object in any way without ruining some puzzle.

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    • vewatkin,

      Congratulations on, well, a lot!

      See the above summary.

      Hello Gregor,

      You are picking up on something, keep fishing.

      White Raven

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    • A better distinction seems to be that 3 is the only door that doesn’t feature an image pointing down. The unmarked door from 17 has the downward key; 35 has the downward-pointing pipes; 7 has the downward dagger. Given the absence of floor below, the use of downward-pointing as a consistent negative indicator is thematically appropriate, whereas symmetry isn’t, and is a stretch to fit with the “turning back” clue as well.

      The instruments in the room connect to the music heard in 7, and the horn and crown have counterparts there as well.

      The violin has been shorted a string, so it has only 3; the pipes, in a way, are pointing to 3.

      The horn in the doorway to 3 is hard to read; its shape is suggestive of pointing upward, but its use makes you think of the broad end as the bottom and the small end as the top; however, in reading it consistent with the pipes, which seem like a pretty clear “down” indicator, we would consider its shape, and take it as pointing upward, running counter to the downward theme of the wrong doors.

      We also might see it as a a funnel representative of the fact that all the routes leading into the room must eventually go through 3. (There is no other exit from 35 or the loop of rooms beyond 7.)

      I suspect other images were chosen to distract from the directional theme by suggesting other relationships between the objects. As we went through on the podcast, though, there are too many ways to group the objects to simply accept any grouping without any additional reference/cluing from the room. You can get three groups of three, arguably even in directional groupings, but it doesn’t seem relevant.

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    • I like the mirror symmetry one because of the text – the seeing the signs from the center part.

      And as mentioned there is a room solution here that makes use of every object and makes use of visual groupings etc to get to its answer – a dance hitch – where you put your weight on 3.

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    • The symmetrical object grouping doesn’t really even seem to point to 3. 3 has 0 symmetrical objects, 17/drum has 1 (perhaps, depends on how you read the insect), 35 has 1, 7 has 2. You could just as readily isolate 7 as having two symmetrical images; call it an “odd one in” for having no asymmetrical images.

      The bigger picture is that if Manson wanted to indicate incorrect doors with symmetrical images and the correct door with asymmetrical images, it wouldn’t have be done in this uneven, ambiguous (at best) method. Heck, maybe 35 is the odd one, since 7 has two symmetrical shapes and 3 has two symmetrical shapes, and only 35 has one of each, depending on how/whether we examined the drum door. (Which is a serious failing in any of these symmetry readings.)

      It doesn’t look intentional, and if it’s intentional, it doesn’t help to identify the right door. The symmetry is more likely a side effect of having objects point up or down, that tending to involve objects without notable protrusions to either side.

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    • vewatkin,

      Congratulations about the pointing down V and dagger and the pointing up clarion! (The key is part of something else and may be doing double duty, but since it is a locked door the point is moot.)

      Regarding mirror-symmetrical images: There are another two bits to this riddle which makes it more acceptable…none the less, I entirely understand if there are questions about this even after the other part is found, my confidence level on this one is moderate.

      Not sure about the funnel idea. Could be true…

      White Raven

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  14. Here’s my only halfway decent thought on room 33: the violin has only three strings, which is pretty conspicuous. That could be a “3″ clue. If there were an obvious 5 somewhere in the room, it could make 35, but I don’t see a five anywhere (there are six slabs in the stack – the lowest one is just barely visible).

    ALSO: obligatory “Triangles have three sides!!!!” comment.

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  15. The Raven poem which is given over a loop of rooms also begins here. Note that the “thoughtful one” gives us all the clues we need to figure out what room loop to find something in. And the neighboring rooms 7 and 16 tell us what to look for. Finding it here is only confirmation. Those books are “volumes of forgotten lore” that we are over. One of the guests goes out to the middle over them. The dying embers wrought their ghost upon the “floor”, and look at the shadows the floor boards cast. And the room number 33 upside down is EE as room 3 shows us. EE on the MAZE clock happens in room 13. The time there is a “fake noon” because this room 33 is at midnight, and by twisted maze logic an upside down 33 is then fake noon. The skeleton clock in 13 also helps show it to be midnight here. Its hands read as a clock in the “EA” position, and that is the time here. They indicate it is “witching hour” here. Also in room 3 (see that room) there are more clues relating to it being midnight here.
    The drum above the door would make a tapping sound.
    “With exaggerated caution” they go to the door in the text and notice the time it takes him to get to the door in the poem, and in the text. “With exaggerated caution…considering their predicament…they finally found the door they wanted…and eventually…found themselves in…”
    Here is the first part of the poem, which aligns with this room.
    Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered weak and weary,
    Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore,
    While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
    As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
    `’Tis some visitor,’ I muttered, `tapping at my chamber door -
    Only this, and nothing more.’

    Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December,
    And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor.
    Eagerly I wished the morrow; – vainly I had sought to borrow
    From my books surcease of sorrow – sorrow for the lost Lenore -
    For the rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore -
    Nameless here for evermore.

    And the silken sad uncertain rustling of each purple curtain
    Thrilled me – filled me with fantastic terrors never felt before;
    So that now, to still the beating of my heart, I stood repeating
    `’Tis some visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door -
    Some late visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door; -
    This it is, and nothing more,’

    Presently my soul grew stronger; hesitating then no longer,
    `Sir,’ said I, `or Madam, truly your forgiveness I implore;
    But the fact is I was napping, and so gently you came rapping,
    And so faintly you came tapping, tapping at my chamber door,
    That I scarce was sure I heard you’ – here I opened wide the door; -
    Darkness there, and nothing more.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
    Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before;
    But the silence was unbroken, and the darkness gave no token,
    And the only word there spoken was the whispered word, `Lenore!’
    This I whispered, and an echo murmured back the word, `Lenore!’
    Merely this and nothing more.

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  16. Something I noticed about the two shields above door 3 is that they’re both missing something. The bird looks like it’s missing a wing and the amphora a handle. The fact that this room is missing the floor could be a clue.

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  17. Let’s go for the big room-wide exit solution here. Let’s start with “dagger and crown”, Google that and you come up with the “7 seven” society. http: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Society_%28College_of_William_%26_Mary%29
    On the next door we have a “V” and a “picture”. If you grew up with tube TVs that is a “vertical”. What is vertical on that violin? The strings. OK, put these two doors together and we have a “7 string”. On a guitar this is an extra bass string, and the instrument is generally use as a bass rhythm piece.
    The next door we have “bee +T(lightly hidden as a key) = beat”. The door gives us a “drum beat”.
    Last door – “jug” plus “ring” is like those milk rings that cats like to play with. Combine that with the bugle and you have a jug instrument.
    So we have a 3 piece rhythm section. That is a pretty good indicator of door 3 right there, but we are not done. We have that wagon “hitch”. Hitch plus rhythm = a hitch in dance.
    From http: //practice-wcs.com/wp/the-fundamentals-of-hitches/
    “…a quick definition. The hitch is simply a delayed weight transfer on the first two beats of the pattern”.
    Ah…so we “put our weight on 3”. And since we are in the center of the room, we walk out on that board to 3.

    If anyone is looking at multi-room stuff yet…Beethoven is in this room as well. 17,33,and 3 give us Beethoven’s ninth symphony which has been called “symphony as the world” in academia. And the “World” is the puzzle answer, of course.

    Also a recitation of Poe’s the Raven begins in this room and goes around a loop to 35.

    Checking this one off my list.

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    • I ignored Dave’s mention of William and Mary’s Seven 7s Society (Order of the Crown and Dagger), thinking it was just some random google hit, but I checked it out today, and I would buy it as a covert reference by Manson. I don’t think it helps as a room solution, but it may have just been an in-joke to himself to choose those images for door 7.

      The society has a lot of MYSTERIOUS SYMBOLS and stuff, the kind of thing that seems like it would fit with Manson’s interest in alchemical and masonic symbolism, and the society isn’t hopelessly obscure or anything. You can check them out on wikipedia to decide for yourself; do an image search on Google, too, to see some of their seals and old photographs and engravings with the cryptic signs; I think that’s what sold me on the connection maybe not being a coincidence.

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    • Yep society of 7s is real. But it does factor in to the room-level solution as I said. The two doors on the right give one bass/rhythm instrument. The drum beat is a very simple 2nd one, and door 3 is a 3rd one. The wagon then need to be put together with 3 rhythm instruments to figure out what they imply. But it is the hitch of the wagon you want. A hitch in dance is when you refrain from placing your weight until the 3rd beat of a pattern. i.e put your weight on 3. These room level solutions are fully of ironic humor. I do hope you’ll see them better at some point.

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  18. I’m going to add my input on just one more room:
    From http://www.davegentile.com/stuff/maze-rooms.htm
    I call this the “Beethoven” room, because I think this is the most important find here. We have a “Bee”, a “T” somewhat hidden as a key, a “V” and also below in a Violin, and then an “O” partly hidden by a picture of a wren. That would give us everything except the “H”, and “Horn” gives us the needed “H”. A violin is, of course, also associated with Beethoven, and a drum and bugle core might play “Ode to Joy” from Beethoven’s 9th symphony. There is a picture of a wagon above the doors, and a wagon is sometimes synonymous with a “van”, which gives us “Van Beethoven”.

    I’m not sure why this room has no floor, but perhaps the “pit” is an orchestra pit?

    This room links to rooms around in it a couple of ways. In room 35, which is connected, we can get the word “suite”. And then in room 17, also connected, by the unmarked door, we can get the word “symphony”. And finally in room 3, we can get the word “Nine”, with a strong indicator that we are to use it more than once. (See the description of these rooms). In total we have “Beethoven’s 9th Suite” and “Beethoven’s 9th Symphony”.

    Beethoven’s 9th suite is “Revelation by moonlight”, which I believe is a strong clue to look at the giant moon in room 26, which is a key room to solving the whole puzzle. Beethoven’s 9th symphony has as its topic the whole world, ending with a utopian dream for the future. “Symphony as the world” has been used to describe this work. And, of course, “the World” is the overall answer to the maze.

    We have a bit more going on here. The “Pitcher” and the “sword” give us all the letters we need to spell “Christopher”, except for the silent “H”, and as with “Beethoven” I believe we can find that in the “Horn”. Or if we stretch, maybe a wagon “Hitch”.

    “Crown” is almost as good as “Sword” at giving us letters for “Christopher”, but also it could be a reference to “Christ” in the name Christopher. The name means “Christ-bearer” and together with the amphora which is used to bear liquids we have the meaning of Christopher given in symbols. (And notice that it is only the objects above the door NOT associated with Beethoven that give us “Christopher” and “Christ-bearer” and this hypothesis fully accounts for all the objects here).

    The correct exit is 3, and that may be given weakly by the fact that “bee”, “key” and ”V” are three things that rhyme with “three”.

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  19. I believe the drum over the door in room 33 is a symbol to refer to room 20, because the only other place it’s found is right on the door to room 20 from page 1. If you take this door on your way out, you can complete the Maze in only 12 steps! The out path would be 45 to 17 to 33 to 20 (drum) to 1.

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  20. The instruments in the room make this a music theme room. So we just need to find the connection between music and something over one of the available doors and we know which way to go.

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