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…an entirely different kind of place.
The group complained of feeling “all turned around,” as well they might.
Because no one wanted to stay here very long they missed the real sign while looking through the obvious. People in their situation, confronted with a challenge, tend to accept the terms of the challenge as a given, without examining it from all sides. How many sides does that problem have? They don’t know.
We passed down a long flight of stairs, through some sort of pantry, and on into…
- Images and text copyright 1985 by Christopher Manson
used with permission. [Purchase MAZE from Amazon]
Room Type: LOOP Doors: 9 15 18 33
Solution Summary: [COLLECTION CURATED BY WHITE Raven. SEE COMMENTS FOR ADDITIONAL SOLUTION PROPOSALS.]
● The “obvious sign” in the text refers to the “THIS WAY” sign which points to door 18 no matter how you invert the image. [Independent Credit: Hello Gregor | White Raven]
● Two question and answer pairs indicate the correct door. The riddle of the sphinx emphasized by a question mark (next to the wrong door) points to the answer “man” next to door 18. [Independent Credit: Hello Gregor | vewatkin | White Raven]["Man" is understood in the context of the Riddle of the Sphinx as not to be "male" but "humankind."] The question, “What is your sign?” points to the answer “man” next to door 18. [Independent Credit: David G | White Raven] [This is emphasized by both the question mark in the sphinx picture and the "What is your sign?" banner having the same orientation.]
● The well known modern version of the riddle of sphinx is, “What goes on four legs in the morning, two legs during the day, and four legs in the evening?” In this version a day is equated to a life and thus the night which follows evening is death. The sun and moon symbol then symbolize life and death, reinforcing 18 as the correct choice. [Independent Credit: Aria | White Raven][There are several versions of the riddle in antiquity all which emphasize the sequence four, two, three and make no mention of morning, day and evening. Though the version by Athenaeus includes a second riddle, "There are two sisters: one gives birth to the other and she, in turn, gives birth to the first." The answer is day and night. It is possible that these two riddles were combined to create the modern version.]
● The STOP/POTS sign pairs with the pots indicating that they are incorrect. The tepid water in the pots points to the warm water in the radiator. “Warm” as an idiom in English denotes more correct. The sun and radiator on/next to door 18 are both warm. [Independent Credit: Hello Gregor | White Raven] Room 18 is described as a “much warmer room” this reinforces the warmer/cooler riddle. [Credit: Hello Gregor] The moon denotes darkness, the sun denotes light. Darkness/bad versus light/good is a running theme in MAZE. [Independent Credit: David Gentile | White Raven] [Warm and cold dovetail with life and death in the sphinx riddle so that "warmer," life, light, and "man" all point to door 18.]
● The typeface of the banner “WHAT IS YOUR SIGN” is written so that letters could be numbers. The word “IS” appears to be either a 15, 51, 12, or 21 depending upon how the room is flipped or reversed. If 21 and 12 are added the result is 33, if these numbers are subtracted the result is 9. 33 and 9 are the numbers of the incorrect doors. [Independent Credit: 515 | White Raven] [This solution is incomplete.] 51 – 12 & 21 = 18 the number of the correct door. [Independent Credit: Aria | White Raven] [This solution is incomplete.]
I wwwwwwwwwwwwwonder whether the symmetry of the sun has any relevance here.
And it has been mentioned it’s nighttime in the sphinx picture right? OOOH, sphinx, spooky, nighttime bad…
Perhaps the phrase “what is your sign?” points to the pots, as it is a type of aquarius, or “water bearer”, even though it’s an inanimate object. The pots in turn point to 18.
That’s an interesting thought, another step in a jumble of associations. “What’s your sign?” is typically a question about zodiac signs; Aquarius is a zodiac sign; it’s mirrored by the literal STOP sign that also says POTS because of the mirror imaging…
Of course, one handle points to 9, one to 18, as we’ve noted repeatedly. I’m not sure just referencing the pots/pans gets you to 18.
You’re right, there’s no single direction they point to. The pasta pot has no handle, the other pot points to 9, but the pan points to 18. I mean, maybe there’s an odd one in principle: pay attention to the pan, not the pots (or stop). Strengthened by the word pantry (try pan).
I haven’t been remotely faithful about promoting every webcast episode in here, but those interested in witnessing the exuberance of an intoxicated SP discussing Maze should check out the most recent show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhaXLCmkqmk
He assures us during the show that he is not under the influence, but I think you can make the right call for yourself in that regard. There are some new suggestions with regard to the room, I think, though, honestly, any factual content in the show plays second fiddle to the raw enthusiasm.
Is the “pantry”, passed through while leaving, an (unnumbered) room itself? And if so, doesn’t it have doorways in and out? I think including two extra doorways for the pantry permits us to get a total of 190 doors.
Once again the “top hat” (anagram of “to path”) is pointing at the correct door (18), as in rooms 13 and 7. The only other top hat is in room 42 where it is not pointing to the actual correct door, but is right next to the pair of dice equaling 4. Has this been noted before? have i missed a top hat?
oops, i meant 18 not 13, there’s one in 10 too, and it’s not pointing to the correct door. but it is on the dancer holding a baton, which could correspond to the baton(cane) on the ladder pointing to the right door.
[Independent Bad Credit]: Kon-tiki
In 42 I think the guide “assures them he would help them return” and thus the top hat points to the path back to room 1.
Also in 18 he says “Are you sure it’s the hat that is lost?” – to me that might mean only one hat in Maze gives the wrong door (42) and the rest including the one in 18 are correct.
In 10 the dancer points to no door but the baton does point correctly as you note.
yep I tried convincing the folks here that ‘top hat’ is an anagram for ‘to path’ because in some cases it’s true. there are other theories about him too, that he is a visitor of importance or related to the guide. in room 34 the dude might not be wearing a top hat because it’s in darkness, and his usual accessory (the baton) is replaced by a cane. maybe these two differences are to denote that he is not top hat and leading you astray. yeah I know this is room 3 talk, but i’m assuming everyone is reading everything ;)
A lot of nonsense written here, I’m afraid.
Anyway, 15 is NOT an option.
There is 9, 18, 31, and 33.
You can not simply use 21, 12, or 2 on the signs. They are not on any door.
I hope this page can be corrected soon.
HM,
I don’t think calling Christopher Manson wrong about his own book will help your credibility. On the other hand – it’s impossible to hurt it very much right now. You can’t go to 31 from 3.
And while you are correct that 15 is not an option to leave 3, 15 does lead TO 3, and as in every other room, that is what the unlabeled door represents.
[deleted for the sake of politeness to strangers]
check out the map of the 3 different circuits in the maze on themaze dot tk, it will help you with which doors are correct (in the big picture)
The answer is nine. Why does this page list 15 and not 31? 31 is in the word nine.
The correct door is 18, not nine.
15 is listed as the number of the locked door.
Despite 31 being hidden in the word NINE the door leads to Room 9 as confirmed by room mapping and also a statement by Manson.
it could be that the “obvious sign” is actually thr number of the room in the lower right corner, 3, sonce the third door is indeed correct.
super-duper basic – the black sign over the door is BLACK – goes with night/dark/cool side of room.
Well, apart from any solutionbI was just noting that the placards with door number are signs that lean against the walls. The black placard over the unmarked door is actually flight against the wall, and looks like it has a panel around it. I think it’s not just a blacked-out sign, but a window, showing that the area behind the door is dark, just like the areas behind the doors 9 and 33. Since you can’t take that door, I’m not sure that it’s helpful to include it in the light/dark contrast, but it’s included anyway. (Manson tends not to show inaccessible doors as open, so the blackness behind it was shown a different way.)
Almost every item not adjacent to the sun door rests partially in shadow. The moon is notably not darkened or touching shadow, however.
Got it now.
If you look at scroll upside down the question mark looks like a 9. On the back wall we have “?” and we have “NINE” add those and get 18 = door exit.
(Alternately it could be an indicator of the Tao/path door – The opposite of “?” is “9″ so 9 is the answer).
We have plenty of evidence in this room that 18 is the shortest exit, and is indicated in very Yang-like ways. The Yin door to 33 will not dump us in a trap. We will merely wander until we get back here. But the “Tao” is about balance. Might door 9 be the “balanced door?” Yes, it is. It you go right to 18 and skip room 9 you go TOO fast. You skip a time zone, you skip a musical note, and you skip stanzas of the Raven poem. And room 18 has a puzzle to tell you you went too fast getting there if you came right from 3 too. There is one lonely pointer to NINE as well. The staff of the arrow sign points to door 9.
Oh, pffff….how many sides, stop sign, eight, eighteen.
Connecting the PANtry to the pots, maybe; we also go down a flight of stairs. What’s the important part there, down or flight? Is going down the counter of the pick UP line across the way?
NO VINCE THAT’S STUPID GO TO SLEEP
Well in 41 we climb a ladder to get to this area so I guess it is good we go downstairs somewhere on the loop back. Otherwise Escher Maze.
Putting it in the text there makes it like you go down stairs whether you exit 9 or 18. But the storeroom is more pantry like.
Did the stop sign. Also noted 1 and 8 can add to 9 rather than making 18 so that’s ambiguous.
Can we draw an 18 sided monster shape by drawing connection lines like WR?
This could be a yin yang room too.
I suppose if we think 9 = Nein over in room 27 we might decide to anagram here and get “Nein”. That’s only reasonable in you already know about room 27, however.
Sun and moon and master mason are the three minor lights of freemasondry
OK so if “sun man” marks the bad exit in 4 and 19, then in the turned around room “moon man” marks the wrong exit.
18 is described as “a much warmer room.” This could confirm that you made the right choice and were thinking about the temperature connection the proper way during your time in room 3.
Hello Gregor,
Good catch! I’ll put in on the board. One Greg point!
White Raven
On Sun and light. Agree general yes. But a bit tricky to apply in specifics here I think. 23 Cleary tells us Sun marks the correct path and moon the reverse. But there “pictures do not lie” But do they lie here? And if they do lie are they reversed so that they tell the truth? I sort of like that last idea.
The archetechture could be 3 levels if that has not been mentioned. Trap, loop and path. The loop rooms are darker, but given we know the time is predawn there that makes sense too. vswakins notes 23 as a place light dark works. And it does here. Would not recommend walking into the light in room 4. Works fine in 37. 34 seems a stretch. 32? Definetly 28. meh on 13, because maybe you should go 9. 25 works. Kinda gives wrong answer in 18. Well you wall into the light in 17. But you need to go in the dark hole in 12. Maybe 11. Middle brightness door in 10. Dont follow the sunbeam in 1. Clear positives 3,23,28,25,17 so yep, I’ll give you 5. Clear counter indicator = room 4. OK – I’ll go along with it as a pretty good general indicator.
David Gentile,
Correct about the well lit The Path, the semi-lit Loop and the dark Trap.
Regarding the rest: Light and dark are not simple indicators as if something with sunlight on it is correct for that reason alone. Light and dark are shown to be good and bad by supporting riddles. When this is not the case, it is just the light and shadows necessary to make an artistic looking room.
White Raven
How about “man in moon” vs “man out in Sun” so 18 is out???
So I was trying to think of what other way WR might mean Sun and man connect. I came up with Icarus son of Daedalus designer of the Greek maze. He flew close to the sun with wax wings made by his father. That’s probably not it. But it did give me a problem with “You are getting warmer” because you also might “get burnt”
Maybe we are suppose to walk out of the darkness and into the light???
Dave Gentile,
Yes! Manson assumes light and the sun as positive and correct. Light/sun vs darkness is pointed to as correct in no less than five occasions in MAZE and plays a minor role in a dozen others. On this occasion the moon/dark=bad, sun/light=good connection is assumed on the basis of the metaphor being a running theme throughout MAZE. The light and darkness theme in MAZE extends to the basic architecture of the House.
White Raven
Sounds like tomorrow will be a fruitful day! Someone take this light/dark jazz over to 23, just for starters.
Damn! I need to correct myself. For a long time I thought the light and dark in this room was an exception to the other occurrences and was assumed on the basis of it being a theme in the book – which would have been enough. But then I found the reinforcing aspect in this room that basically says “night is bad.” Then I forgot I found the reinforcing aspect. Then I remembered and posted this correction.
I have a memory like an iron sieve.
You don’t mean the moon and the sun go together like night and day do you?
I’ll go with warmer/cooler is an intentional indicator.
But:
“The STOP/POTS sign is saying no to the pots (which by implication says yes to the radiator)”.
I don’t think that works.
When David Gentile says your connection is farfetched, you damn well better listen.
Also: “Man is warmer than the stone of the sphinx.” That is just no good, you’re stretching this too far. For one thing, it isn’t a picture of the Egyptian monument; it’s a picture of the Greek monster. (I guess it could be debated whether this sphinx is strictly Greek in appearance, but it doesn’t really matter; the point is that it is the living, animate creature, not the stone statue.) Even if it were a statue, Egypt frequently reaches temperatures hotter than the human body, and the sphinx certainly does as well when the sun is beating down on it. But even putting that much thought into it is misleading, I think, because the basic problem is that “sphinx/man” simply doesn’t map onto “cold/hot,” or “unheated/heated,” in any unforced way.